Conical Weight vs Powder Charge Relationship

[arkbark36]

I'll start by saying that I understand that every gun will prefer a different load.

However, is there a general rule of thumb for a relationship between conical (and maybe even bullets...but conical in particular) weight and powder charge?

Given that type of powder stays the same.


Let's say a 1:32 twist barrel b/c that's what I have....if I had a load worked up for a 380 grain conical, would I expect a 500 grain conical OF THE SAME DESIGN to shoot the best with less, same, or more powder?

Sorry, I like the details of things.

 

[eekjellander]

I'll start by saying that I understand that every gun will prefer a different load.

However, is there a general rule of thumb for a relationship between conical (and maybe even bullets...but conical in particular) weight and powder charge?

Given that type of powder stays the same.


Let's say a 1:32 twist barrel b/c that's what I have....if I had a load worked up for a 380 grain conical, would I expect a 500 grain conical OF THE SAME DESIGN to shoot the best with less, same, or more powder?

Sorry, I like the details of things.

No sir not even close ,if you need to know you need to shoot cause nothing is the same when changing weight/powder /or even same gun/same twist as 2 same barrels are not always the same . Hence the need for ranges ! /Ed

 

[arkbark36]

No sir not even close ,if you need to know you need to shoot cause nothing is the same when changing weight/powder /or even same gun/same twist as 2 same barrels are not always the same . Hence the need for ranges ! /Ed

So you would say that there is absolutely zero correlation between the two?

 

[eekjellander]

So you would say that there is absolutely zero correlation between the two?

YUP/Ed

 

[bstorric]

There has to be some correlation. Physics doesn't just apply its properties randomly. Not saying that variances in different barrels do not come into play, but the question is more of a philosophical one. All things the same, generally do you increase load/decrease load, or keep the same load? What would you see as a result. That would be an interesting experiment to perform across a few different barrels. Say increase the projectile mass, and change the charges using several different barrels of the same caliber and see what happens. In general does accuracy increase, decrease, or remain the same when you lower the charge, increase the charge, or keep the charge the same as the weight of a given projectile changes. My guess would be it depends on twist rate. If you are on the verge of having too slow of a twist rate for a given projectile, reducing the charge would slow the bullet down and slow down the RPMs at which the projectile is rotating. Conversely I think you would see a similar result the other way around but at a certain point too strong of a charge can deform a projectile and influence accuracy negatively

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I dont know if theres a correlation between bullet weight and charge size. But i do decrease powder when i shoot a heavier bullet in the same gun. Not because of recoil or speed, but it just usually seems to work out to better accuracy. My 346grn bullet shoots best with 90grV of bh209 and my 460NE shoots best at 70grV of bh209. Both in an Accura 45. But they both shoot very well at 80grV.

 

[eekjellander]

There has to be some correlation. Physics doesn't just apply its properties randomly. Not saying that variances in different barrels do not come into play, but the question is more of a philosophical one. All things the same, generally do you increase load/decrease load, or keep the same load? What would you see as a result. That would be an interesting experiment to perform across a few different barrels. Say increase the projectile mass, and change the charges using several different barrels of the same caliber and see what happens. In general does accuracy increase, decrease, or remain the same when you lower the charge, increase the charge, or keep the charge the same as the weight of a given projectile changes. My guess would be it depends on twist rate. If you are on the verge of having too slow of a twist rate for a given projectile, reducing the charge would slow the bullet down and slow down the RPMs at which the projectile is rotating. Conversely I think you would see a similar result the other way around but at a certain point too strong of a charge can deform a projectile and influence accuracy negatively

I stand corrected (I think) ,I"ll stick to shootin conicals/bullets at the range and not mention the 50+yrs of doing it wrong and leave to others the how/why and whatever /Ed

 

[arkbark36]

There has to be some correlation. Physics doesn't just apply its properties randomly. Not saying that variances in different barrels do not come into play, but the question is more of a philosophical one. All things the same, generally do you increase load/decrease load, or keep the same load? What would you see as a result. That would be an interesting experiment to perform across a few different barrels. Say increase the projectile mass, and change the charges using several different barrels of the same caliber and see what happens. In general does accuracy increase, decrease, or remain the same when you lower the charge, increase the charge, or keep the charge the same as the weight of a given projectile changes. My guess would be it depends on twist rate. If you are on the verge of having too slow of a twist rate for a given projectile, reducing the charge would slow the bullet down and slow down the RPMs at which the projectile is rotating. Conversely I think you would see a similar result the other way around but at a certain point too strong of a charge can deform a projectile and influence accuracy negatively

This is exactly what I was thinking. I know the fun of it all is shooting and learning, but I figured there HAS to be some sort of common ground that people have found over the years.

 

[HC]

What does correlation mean? Now my head hurts.

 

[arkbark36]

What does correlation mean? Now my head hurts.

Hahaha my apologies.

 

[arkbark36]

I dont know if theres a correlation between bullet weight and charge size. But i do decrease powder when i shoot a heavier bullet in the same gun. Not because of recoil or speed, but it just usually seems to work out to better accuracy. My 346grn bullet shoots best with 90grV of bh209 and my 460NE shoots best at 70grV of bh209. Both in an Accura 45. But they both shoot very well at 80grV.

That's kinda what I have heard, but havent seen much of a consensus on it. In my head I would think that I heavier projectile would need to be pushed harder in order to spin faster and stabilize. But I consistently hear otherwise....sooo there must be a variable I'm missing lol

 

[eekjellander]

That's kinda what I have heard, but havent seen much of a consensus on it. In my head I would think that I heavier projectile would need to be pushed harder in order to spin faster and stabilize. But I consistently hear otherwise....sooo there must be a variable I'm missing lol

Again YUP ,my 530 grain Elliptical does not get pushed (by me) any faster than 1250 fps or accuracy suffers stability goes away but thats just me and the 74 C Sharps talkin . And forgot I should stop talkin /apologies

 

[arkbark36]

Again YUP ,my 530 grain Elliptical does not get pushed (by me) any faster than 1250 fps or accuracy suffers stability goes away but thats just me and the 74 C Sharps talkin . And forgot I should stop talkin /apologies

No reason to stop talking lol.

I wanted people to share their experiences. That's exactly how we can start to see patterns.

 

[52Bore]

Never heard of such for bullet weight, but have always heard of such for bore diameter.
Powder charge of 1.5x the bore diameter: as a general-rule-of-thumb to start.

Twist rate in any given bore size will vary bullet weight.

 

[451whitworth]

You can't go too far wrong using the old British and American black powder cartridges as a general guide. It's easy to find out what powder charge and bullet weight were loaded in them i.e. 45-70-405, 50-100-450 etc. The book "Cartridges of the World" is a wealth of information in that regard.

 

[eekjellander]

Back at it ,anyone shooting long (500+) knows exceeding the mzzle velocity mentioned with BP/subs will be breaking trans sonic and cause instability of projectile when re entering . It"s why 12-1300 is the number you shoot for in target/competion . Smokeless it doesn"t apply as you are already above that velocity ,short range doesn"t matter either (much)