Consistent Powder Measure?

[huff143]

Hey All,

I have a couple different powder measures I use with 777 ffg and they measure volume differently, by probably 8-10 grains. I also have speed loaders with a measure on them, and when I pour the charges in there they measure differently too! I've settled on using one measuring tube (only because it looks cooler) so they'll be the same, but I still don't know how much powder I'm actually using since all three are different. Is there a way to figure out which (if any) are correct? Perhaps a brand that is known to be better?

Thanks,

Huff

 

[deermanok]

The only way to know for sure is to get a scale and weigh your powder charges.

 

[MSalyards]

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Me too. Although i dont measure T7 fffg in it cuz it sounds horrible going thru. Whenever i do drop from my Lee measure it gets weighed and adjusted til its where i want it. I never go by the book settings. Once set i may weigh every 6th or 10th drop to make sure its still on. I used to use a TC handheld clear plastic measure to set it but it kept causing static cling to build up in my Lee measure so i switched to a brass measure to get my weight average. Then set the Lee to drop a volume at that weight. I keep the info on loads with the measure. Works well with everything except when switching lots of bh209. Then i have to re-average it. I should mix all my dif lots of bh209 together, mix it up real good and get an average-average. Ive got 4 different lots right now.

 

[eekjellander]

Hey All,

I have a couple different powder measures I use with 777 ffg and they measure volume differently, by probably 8-10 grains. I also have speed loaders with a measure on them, and when I pour the charges in there they measure differently too! I've settled on using one measuring tube (only because it looks cooler) so they'll be the same, but I still don't know how much powder I'm actually using since all three are different. Is there a way to figure out which (if any) are correct? Perhaps a brand that is known to be better?

Thanks,

Huff

I don"t know if it makes a difference ,just like the Lee lead tester I treat it as a bench mark (nothing more) ! What ever you measure just make it the same and you can:t go wrong ! My measuring BHN (lead hardness) might differ from yours but if it reads 13 and I do it the same every time the hardness stays the same (every time) . Consistancy is the goal achieve it and you"ll do well ,says the Griz that bit Bridgers ass (Jeremia Johnson quote)

 

[huff143]

I don"t know if it makes a difference ,just like the Lee lead tester I treat it as a bench mark (nothing more) ! What ever you measure just make it the same and you can:t go wrong ! My measuring BHN (lead hardness) might differ from yours but if it reads 13 and I do it the same every time the hardness stays the same (every time) . Consistancy is the goal achieve it and you"ll do well ,says the Griz that bit Bridgers ass (Jeremia Johnson quote)

True enough...and I love that movie. It actually inspired my Dad to buy a Hawken in the 70's. It probably inspired a LOT of dads to buy a Hawken back then.

 

[sam-arkie]

I've shot muzzleloaders since Arkansas had it's first muzzleloader season back in the 1970's and I've always used some kind of volume measuring device for weighing charges. Starting with black powder, then Pyrodex and right on up to Blackhorn 209 came along. I bought a CVA Paramount a few months ago and one of the recommendations that came with the gun was the suggestion that you weigh all the loads on a powder scale. Since I do reload it wasn't a big deal, I had the scales. What was a big deal was when I got to checking my different volume powder measures against the scales and realized just how bad measuring by volume was. I'll never volume measure any powder again. I've never really tried to really wring all the accuracy out of my muzzleloader hunting rifles, like I do with my modern rifles. A 2" or even a 3" group at 100yds was just fine for deer hunting with a gun with a 150 to 200 yard limit. But with the Paramount talking about shooting out to 400yds that wouldn't do. Now after weighing the Blackhorn with my powder scales and also checking my volume measurements, I now see why I never got better groups with my T/C Pro Hunter with a 50 caliber barrel, or the other muzzleloaders I've had in the past. By being so inconsistent with my powder loads, by measuring by volume and even using an assortment of different devices to do that with, I was adding a totally un-necessary and much larger variable into the equation than I'd ever dreamed. I've now bought a whole bunch of powder tubes and I'll never measure any powder with anything but a good set of scales.

 

[sdporter]

I use a brass measure, but it only moves in 10 grain increments.
What I do, others will do similar, others very different.
I set my volume measure and weigh that charge, I then set my volume measure 10 grains higher and use it as a trickler to weigh out however many charges I want to at the time, going to exactly the weight of the previously weighed volume.
That way if I’m out shooting and run out of loads, it’s not a big deal to just set the volume measure again and shoot a few more.
With real black,I just set the scale at whatever I want to shoot and start weighing them out.
The only reason I use the brass powder measure as a trickler is I only have one powder measure that throws charges and it’s a pain to get all the powder out and switch around.
It’s quite a bit slower, but not that big of a deal to me.
Powder by volume can be very accurate as well, if you do it the same way every time.
In a nutshell, pick one measuring device and only use that one, or weigh your charges.

 

[huff143]

I reload for all my centerfires, so the scale is no problem. But, how do I know how much I should be weighing out in T7 ffg? For example, I’ve been shooting 100grns/vol, but what should it weigh?

 

[jlynch75]

I use T7 both ffg and fffg. I think fffg of T7 meters much better. As for weighing each load I'd don't see much difference when using volume, but weight is better if you want to take the time. I never use loads more than 80grs (volume) and get sub-MOA out of both of my muzzleloaders when I do my part right which is getting harder at 77.

 

[sdporter]

I reload for all my centerfires, so the scale is no problem. But, how do I know how much I should be weighing out in T7 ffg? For example, I’ve been shooting 100grns/vol, but what should it weigh?

Weigh one charge measured at 100 grains, or weigh three charges and average. If that VOLUME shoots good, who cares what it weighs. It should weigh 77.7 grains though, hence the name 777

 

[45-70]

Amost all mz shooters at Friendship use a Cash style volume measure, and they make two sizes diameter same on both one is just longer

 

[huff143]

Weigh one charge measured at 100 grains, or weigh three charges and average. If that VOLUME shoots good, who cares what it weighs. It should weigh 77.7 grains though, hence the name 777

The name makes sense, thanks much!

 

[Bad Karma]

I've shot muzzleloaders since Arkansas had it's first muzzleloader season back in the 1970's and I've always used some kind of volume measuring device for weighing charges. Starting with black powder, then Pyrodex and right on up to Blackhorn 209 came along. I bought a CVA Paramount a few months ago and one of the recommendations that came with the gun was the suggestion that you weigh all the loads on a powder scale. Since I do reload it wasn't a big deal, I had the scales. What was a big deal was when I got to checking my different volume powder measures against the scales and realized just how bad measuring by volume was. I'll never volume measure any powder again. I've never really tried to really wring all the accuracy out of my muzzleloader hunting rifles, like I do with my modern rifles. A 2" or even a 3" group at 100yds was just fine for deer hunting with a gun with a 150 to 200 yard limit. But with the Paramount talking about shooting out to 400yds that wouldn't do. Now after weighing the Blackhorn with my powder scales and also checking my volume measurements, I now see why I never got better groups with my T/C Pro Hunter with a 50 caliber barrel, or the other muzzleloaders I've had in the past. By being so inconsistent with my powder loads, by measuring by volume and even using an assortment of different devices to do that with, I was adding a totally un-necessary and much larger variable into the equation than I'd ever dreamed. I've now bought a whole bunch of powder tubes and I'll never measure any powder with anything but a good set of scales.

Sam Fadala, and a host of other old timers are to blame for this... possibly with a less energetic powder the inconsistency isn’t as obvious on target but when using powder like Swiss, OE, T7 or other subs it’s a greater factor.

 

[sam-arkie]

Sam Fadala, and a host of other old timers are to blame for this... possibly with a less energetic powder the inconsistency isn’t as obvious on target but when using powder like Swiss, OE, T7 or other subs it’s a greater factor.

I really can't' blame anyone for getting into this mind set way back when. Even back in the 1970's, when I started with muzzleloaders, I had been reloading for centerfires for years. I would have never dreamed of just using a dipper to measure smokeless powder when I knew how much difference tenths of grains would make. The mind set then was that the guns weren't accurate enough to need that kind of precision and the fact that we watched Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett just dump the powder down the barrel out of a powder horn every Saturday morning on TV, if it was good enough for Daniel's old Betsy, it was good enough for us. After years of doing it the same way, it's got to be entrenched into the culture. The biggest roadblock on changing something I've been doing for many years, is admitting to myself that I've been doing it wrong all those years. Maybe "Wrong" isn't the right word. It wasn't wrong, it just wasn't the "Best" way to do it.

 

[snapbang]

For smokeless powder I throw a measure that is less than I need. Then put it on the scale and measure as I top it off to the exact weight. I usually load 40-50 at a time. For muzzle loading I only shoot 10-12 at a time so I just sprinkle into the pan of the scale. Either way they all get weighed.

 

[Bad Karma]

I really can't' blame anyone for getting into this mind set way back when. Even back in the 1970's, when I started with muzzleloaders, I had been reloading for centerfires for years. I would have never dreamed of just using a dipper to measure smokeless powder when I knew how much difference tenths of grains would make. The mind set then was that the guns weren't accurate enough to need that kind of precision and the fact that we watched Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett just dump the powder down the barrel out of a powder horn every Saturday morning on TV, if it was good enough for Daniel's old Betsy, it was good enough for us. After years of doing it the same way, it's got to be entrenched into the culture. The biggest roadblock on changing something I've been doing for many years, is admitting to myself that I've been doing it wrong all those years. Maybe "Wrong" isn't the right word. It wasn't wrong, it just wasn't the "Best" way to do it.

Well blame may be a little harsh...
but yep, with more efficiency comes the possibility of greater variance. Death to the consistency required for top flight accuracy. I’m an old dog, even I can learn apparently. Sometimes... if I have to...

 

[Screwbolts]

I also believe that consistency is what is important. There are no Lab grade/ certified Volumetric certified measures. There are to many variables that are uncontrollable by the makers of both measures and Powders.

Find what works for you and you can repeat consistently and your results will be consistent.

Ken