Could not get bh209 to fire. Too cold?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by michiganmuzzy, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Feb 10, 2019 #1

    michiganmuzzy

    michiganmuzzy

    michiganmuzzy

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    Took my Knight Super DISC 45 to the range today. 25°f. 80gr Volume bh209, Oxyoke .45 felt wad, 425gr Buffalo Bore bullet .451. Lehigh bp shimmed for 209A, clean and clear, Fed 209A primers. Poured my loads into a BH tube an hour before I left, could NOT get it to fire. 3 different loads, 12 primers. Nothing except a pop from the primer. Then i had to reseat the bullet. I tried 3 loads that I kept in my pocket to keep warm. First time ive had that happen that was not from something i did. Even had the RO check and confirm.
     
  2. Feb 10, 2019 #2

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    I use conicals sized .001-.002 over lands and a .460x.060 veggie/fiber wad. It has fired every time. In the cold i use 2 wads just to be sure.

    Walters wads are even larger. They are .462 to .463
    Pittman has 100 packs cheap so you wont need to buy 1000 of them.
    https://www.pittmanbullets.com/shooting-accessories/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  3. Feb 11, 2019 #3

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    Wow! would not have believed it!... by any chance did you pre-shoot any primers to clear the BP before loading? And now if you have not cleaned the rifle and you are sure it is clear of the powder and projectile you could also test the BP by popping a primer and see if the BP was clear. Another test is hold the muzzle close to the floor/ground and see if dust or dirt moves after the cap goes off.

    But if after shooting a cap you needed to re-seat the bullet some pressure must have been getting through. But with a 209A I am surprised it didn't push the bullet out of the barrel.

    Hope some of this might help...
     
  4. Feb 11, 2019 #4

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

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    Don’t think cold weather had any effect. Possibly a primer mixup, or partially clogged breech plug. Let us know when you find the problem. Good luck.
     
  5. Feb 11, 2019 #5

    michiganmuzzy

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    I pulled the bp to push out the load and bullet. Ran a dry patch thru looking for moisture or lube. you can see right thru the bp. Between the two i dont THINK my bp is plugged. My barrel for sure is not. I only have the 209A and W209 primers. Either one should have fired it. Could my liner be worn out enough to not fire off the load? I haven't pulled out or measured the bp liner but i have replacements that i will try. I will try a different pack of 209A primers, too.
     
  6. Feb 11, 2019 #6

    michiganmuzzy

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    The more i think ab
    The more that i think on it, the more i wonder if i did get some of the ml type 777 or Remington prime mixed into my Federals. I haven't had any in a few years but I guess its possible.
     
  7. Feb 11, 2019 #7

    sabotloader

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    With the newer Knight BP or the Lehigh BP either all of the primers should have set the load off. I have shot BH with a T7 primer and not had any problems. Still have not tried it in very cold weather - it was in the 30's though. I regularly shoot BH with W209's in all weather conditions.

    Have you drilled out (cleaned) the flash channel with a hand turned drill bit?

    I would still like to see you put everything back together and then go out in the garage or outside and with the muzzle close to the ground pop a few primers verify that you are seeing pressure out even better sparks out of the muzzle.

    Actually the rifle will shoot even is the flash hole in the vent liner were eroded and enlarged.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Feb 12, 2019 #8

    michiganmuzzy

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    20190211_193949.jpg 20190211_194018.jpg 20190211_194237.jpg
    20190211_195508.jpg
    Ok, i ran a 1/8" drill bit in the bp only a trace of buildup came out. Took some pics. Reassembled bp and bolt. Fired 2 209A primers at the floor in the garage and sparks/flame came out about an inch past the muzzle both times.
     
  9. Feb 12, 2019 #9

    sabotloader

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    Looks good! and with all of that it really should fire! When might you be able to try again? Do you have a second bottle of BH or maybe another powder?
     
  10. Feb 12, 2019 #10

    michiganmuzzy

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    Maybe tomorrow. Probably not til Sunday tho. I do have Pyrodex RS, and T7 pellets. I am going to try some of my BH in the Accura. Didnt have it at the range sunday. Ill take both guns and all three powders and both primers. See what happens.
     
  11. Feb 12, 2019 #11

    sabotloader

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    That's a plan!
     
  12. Feb 12, 2019 #12

    michiganmuzzy

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    Im not going today! 4" of snow last nite with freezing rain coming down now and 25°f.
     
  13. Feb 12, 2019 #13

    sabotloader

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    Ya, we are in the same boat here... there will be better days...
     
  14. Feb 12, 2019 #14

    GM54-120

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    That plug should actually take a 5/32 bit. A 1/8 might be ok just for testing as long as the carbon is not tainted with solvents or oils.
     
  15. Feb 12, 2019 #15

    michiganmuzzy

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    Since i have the day off and weather sux im going to install a QR button in place of the bolt stop screw. i will double check the bp with a 5/32.
     
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  16. Feb 13, 2019 at 10:05 PM #16

    gmstack

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    THIS IS STRANGE I HAVE USED BH209 FOR YEARS AND HAVE NEVER HAD IT FAIL TO FIRE. ALTHOUGH NOT IN A KNIGHT RIFLE, THOMPSON CENTER ENCORE FX, TC TRIUMPH, TC IMPACT, REMINGTON ULTIMATE, EVERY RIFLE I HAD USED IT IN HAS SHOT WITH BETTER ACCURACY USING BH209 THAN 777 OR PYRODEX. ALL SUGGESTIONS HERE ARE GOOD ONES. I USE FEDERAL PRIMERS ALSO. WISH YOU LUCK NEXT TRIP TO RANGE
     
  17. Feb 14, 2019 at 12:14 AM #17

    michiganmuzzy

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    I had a mis fire once before in my Accura. Intentionally put in an ML 209 primer(Winchester? T7?) Just to see what would happen. Thats why i think i think maybe i got some mixed in with an older pack of 209a primers.
     
  18. Feb 14, 2019 at 12:49 AM #18

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

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    My son has a like new mountaineer and it absolutely will Not fire using a muzzleloader primer and BH209.
     
  19. Feb 14, 2019 at 1:58 AM #19

    sabotloader

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    To me that is sort of weird... one day I decided to shoot some BH with different primers just to see what might happen.. It was warm 60* and I was just loading and shooting - no patching - no barrel cooling - Just throwing the loads through a volume measure and shooting through a chrono.

    The only primer I have truly tested in really cold weather has been the W209 and the older Remington 209-4 primer.

    The velocities held up really well even with the weak primers.

    This was the results...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Feb 14, 2019 at 10:03 AM #20

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

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    The difference between yours and my sons is the breech plugs. My sons still has the factory knight plug with the brazed vent liner. Temperature was about 20 degrees colder when we shot also. Weird yes.
     

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