Could not get bh209 to fire. Too cold?

[alternate]

Strange! I use BH209 exclusively in my non smokeless guns and it has proven extremely reliable in the cold.I use only Federal 209A primers. In temps below 20F it's imperative that the primer seals well and no flame is escaping into the action. A primer fired with a full load should still be shiney with just a small black ring around the flash hole. If the sides are sooty you're losing fire to the powder.

 

[GM54-120]

To me that is sort of weird... one day I decided to shoot some BH with different primers just to see what might happen.. It was warm 60* and I was just loading and shooting - no patching - no barrel cooling - Just throwing the loads through a volume measure and shooting through a chrono.

The only primer I have truly tested in really cold weather has been the W209 and the older Remington 209-4 primer.

The velocities held up really well even with the weak primers.

This was the results...

Same here, while testing the Lehigh GenII plugs i used WinT7s in roughly 60F temps. I was trying to make it fail and it would not with sabots. Ive only used Win209s and Fed209As in the 45s with easy loading conicals and sabotless. Not even the slightest delay with conicals and veggie wads but i havent tested it below freezing either. Only shot like that i did take went off fine after setting loaded for a few weeks. Seems to me is was around freezing the day i "unloaded" it.

 

[sabotloader]

The difference between yours and my sons is the breech plugs. My sons still has the factory knight plug with the brazed vent liner. Temperature was about 20 degrees colder when we shot also. Weird yes.

You know - I really did not consider that... really could be a factor. The more important might be the amount of leakage you may have or not have with your factory plug...

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I just got back from the range. 2 primers fired to foul barrel. the first shot was 80grv bh209, 1/8" felt wad, 385gr no excuses in my Knight .45 1:20. No fire. Primer went off, no blowby, bullet is gone but powder and wad are still in the barrel. I pulled the bp and pushed them out. Kind of oily looking. Swabbed withe a dry patch and reload same setup. Same results except the powder and wad left the barrel this time cuz i can see the powder on the snow this time. Dry swab, reload same setup, but a new package of 209A primers. BOOM! Next 5 shots go off fine 2.5" group with 1 low flyer at 50yds. Switched to blue sabot and 250sst on same 80grv and fired 3 touching at 50yds.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

 

[HC]

Glad you found the problem.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Wish i could get the conicals to shoot like the sabots. I met a guy at the range who sold me some Goex and Swiss powders both in 2f and 3f as well as a can of t7. So it was a good trip in spite of the freezing rain. Now I'll try to work up a good load for conicals. Anyone want two free packs of 209a primers? I'll probably throw them into the firepit next time i burn some brush, just for fun.

 

[GM54-120]

Well, try backing down on the powder. 80gr with that weight conical in a 1-20 is a screamer by conical standards. You are probably in the 1500fps range or more. Sounds to me like you might need them sized a tad larger too.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Well, try backing down on the powder. 80gr with that weight conical in a 1-20 is a screamer by conical standards. You are probably in the 1500fps range or more. Sounds to me like you might need them sized a tad larger too.

I was actually thinking that i would size them smaller. They claim to be .451 on the box, i havent checked them or run them thru a sizer. They are snug but i can push them into the bore with light pressure. Consistent pressure all the way down, maybe 5-10 pounds. I will size some down and knurl some up and drop down the powder to 65 and 70 grv. See what happens.

 

[Chick]

To me that is sort of weird... one day I decided to shoot some BH with different primers just to see what might happen.. It was warm 60* and I was just loading and shooting - no patching - no barrel cooling - Just throwing the loads through a volume measure and shooting through a chrono.

The only primer I have truly tested in really cold weather has been the W209 and the older Remington 209-4 primer.

The velocities held up really well even with the weak primers.

This was the results...

I like the way you test things, and present the info to the forum.

 

[45-70]

so you are saying they all work

 

[Chick]

So, you think it was the Federal 209A primers? If so, this adds to my issues with Federal. Over the years, Federal has been back and forth with quality control. Starting about 15 years ago, Federal began changes ownership, several times. Everytime they changed, there was issues with their ammunition. At one point, they made 22 Match Grade ammunition, that was as good as Eley, or any other in the world, but, that only lasted a few years. I finally swore off of Federal. I just bought a carton of Fed 209A primers, and after reading this article, I am thinking I would be better off staying with my CCI 209M primers.

 

[HC]

Ain’t nothing wrong with Federal Primers.

 

[sabotloader]

I just got back from the range. 2 primers fired to foul barrel. the first shot was 80grv bh209, 1/8" felt wad, 385gr no excuses in my Knight .45 1:20. No fire. Primer went off, no blowby, bullet is gone but powder and wad are still in the barrel. I pulled the bp and pushed them out. Kind of oily looking. Swabbed withe a dry patch and reload same setup. Same results except the powder and wad left the barrel this time cuz i can see the powder on the snow this time. Dry swab, reload same setup, but a new package of 209A primers. BOOM! Next 5 shots go off fine 2.5" group with 1 low flyer at 50yds. Switched to blue sabot and 250sst on same 80grv and fired 3 touching at 50yds.

I know, in fact I really know, success is really hard to argue with, but with the setup you are using there really shouldn't be any reason that you need to use a 209A - IF - you are doing your maintenance. The hot primers like the 209A or 209M can and most often do cause premature wear on the breech plug and vent liner. A lot of the material that burns in you primer will be trapped in the flash channel because it can not pass through the vent liner so it gets trapped on the walls of the breech plug. Eventually the erosion of the size of the flash hole will allow more material to pass but accuracy might suffer.

But, in the same breath you gotta do what you gotta do!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Im not sure why but the problem disappeared with the new pack. Maybe i stored them wrong or they got wet or maybe somehow i got some old ml primers mixed in there. Im pretty sure they are the same pack i was using in my Accura this fall (which im going to shoot this weekend). I might try them again in it. I keep them in a metal ammo box with nothing else in there. Ive been using the feds for years, never gave them a 2nd thought. They just always worked, til they didn't.