Custom Smokeless 50 cal in Canada

[tpiton]

Hi,
This is my firts post here on this forum. I've been reading a lot but i think it's time for me to aks quetions I'ma owner of a CVA wolf and been shooting and hunting with for 5 yrs. That's the knowledge of muzzleloading, shooting my CVA. I've been looking to change for a better gun and by reading i'm interested in smokeless. Here's a few aspects of what i'm looking for:

1. I live in Canada. I hunt moose and laws are 50 cal only for moose, so .45 is not a option
2. Seems hard to get parts or gun from the states.

I found this gun in canada and i phone the shop. Real nice service but i just wanted to double check with some experts to see if this custom gun looks good to you guys ( the 1 :15 twist looks like to fast for some people)

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Custom Built Complete Rifle, Includes the below items assembled and ready to shoot!

• Remington 700 Short Action w/ Remington Factory Trigger
• IBI 416 Stainless Steel Smokeless Barrel, Remington Light Varmint profile, 26", 1:15 twist rate, 7R, 50 caliber
• Tundra Strike Chassis (Colour: Stealth Shadow Vortex)
• Comes with 20, unprimed, Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP Modules for use with large rifle primers
• Arrowhead Rifles 3-piece Ramrod w/ Sheath & Bore Guide
• Arrowhead Rifles Spin Jag

With the evolution of firearms, some things are built out of necessity and this is no different in the muzzleloader world. The Massive locking lugs on the front of the bolt makes the 700 Remington rifle action the perfect choice for a muzzleloader.

The smokeless muzzleloader design is not new but we have perfected it in this custom build configuration to provide better performance and accuracy to make ethical shots out past 300 yards.

With the unique ignition system designed by Arrowhead Rifles along with the use of smokeless propellants, this muzzleloader is one of minimal maintenance and pure performance.

This configuration features a full free floating barrel and thus the ramrod is not attached to the firearm to compromise accuracy. This rifle is designed to operate within the published smokeless muzzleloader load data for the Savage 10ML smokeless muzzleloader.

 

[GM54-120]

Like i told you on the other board....You gain nothing going that fast of a twist in a 50cal SML.

Its only going to stress sabots even more. A 1-24 will stabilize a 400gr bullet in a sabot without cracking a sweat. It will basically match a 404 Jeffrey in energy. That is roughly over 4500 fpe with the right powder and a 400gr. So why would anyone see a need to make a 50cal 1-15 twist SML? Ive seen 1-20 and 1-22s that did ok but they were shooting longer but lighter bullets.

I would buy a Paramount Pro 50 before even considering a 50cal with a 1-15 twist. Add the ASG LRMP and still be way ahead with money to spare.

 

[tpiton]

thanks for replies. This is the only gun I can find smokeless in canada. Hard to have 50 cal smokeless to start with. And most of them are US (Arrowhead, Hankins, DSS) and do not ship to canada. Paramount pro with breechplug replacement is as good as smokeless ? Need power to down moose 200-250 yds

 

[GM54-120]

Paramount Pro 50 is capable of over 2100fps with a 325gr bullet. More like over 2200fps. Comes with a good Grayboe stock and TriggerTech trigger too. Plus is threaded for a brake.

Its not smokeless but you can achieve that speed safely with Blackhorn209 powder.

 

[tpiton]

Pricision Riffles (in canada) can do a savage model 10-11-12 modification to a smokeless ML. Moneywise it's around the same price as PARAMOUNT PRO vs the custom. Hard decision to make lol. The custom gun will also have the Variflame like the paramount pro system wich i seen here may have leak problems.

 

[GM54-120]

I would not use Cecil but the barrel he uses aint bad. Its a Green Mountain 50cal 1-26 twist IIRC. If you have the Savage/Stevens action you can buy the barrel blank from Cecil. Add the ASG plug and LRMP modules. Any smith can set head space on a Savage or Remage build in minutes. If you go Savage, make sure its a large shank and not a small shank.

 

[tpiton]

Thanks for the info, real helpfull. I'll check with Bullseyenorth to see if they can change the barrel on their custom gun that I posted earlier in the thread

 

[GM54-120]

BTW i just looked at that 1-15 twist custom. Its a Remage so the barrel OD is even smaller than a large shank savage. Price is ok i guess. I know nothing about the stock they are using.

If they can use a Douglas Prem XX 50cal 1-24 8land you will love it. I would not even bother with getting it in SS either. CM steel can have a slight edge in strength. Nitride the barrel if corrosion concerns you.

ASG sells a Brux 50cal 1-24 for $325. If that company can buy the modules from Luke they can buy that barrel. That would be another good choice.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/brux-50cal-barrel-24tw-6l/

 

[tpiton]

BTW i just looked at that 1-15 twist custom. Its a Remage so the barrel OD is even smaller than a large shank savage. Price is ok i guess. I know nothing about the stock they are using.

If they can use a Douglas Prem XX 50cal 1-24 8land you will love it. I would not even bother with getting it in SS either. CM steel can have a slight edge in strength. Nitride the barrel if corrosion concerns you.

You lost me lol. So the barrel OD being smaller isn't a good thing. I'll message the shop to see if they can change their custom gun with this barrel. Or something like it

 

[GM54-120]

Remage barrel OD 1.060
Savage small shank OD 1.055
Savage large shank OD 1.12
Full size without a barrel nut can exceed 1.2"
https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?127-Savage-Barrel-Shank-Sizes
To be fair though, no load you can imagine shooting should make over 40kpsi and most would be under 35kpsi. Even a big load of 4198 and a 300gr IN A SABOT wont be near 40kpsi. The additional OD and longer "shank" is for added safety in case a mistake is made during loading. My NULA has a very light contour 50cal barrel. So the margin for user error is small.

 

[tpiton]

Thanks for all the info

 

[GM54-120]

I'll message the shop to see if they can change their custom gun with this barrel. Or something like it

Have them contact Arrowhead about that Brux 50cal 1-24. While i like 8 land better......Brux makes an outstanding barrel.

 

[tpiton]

Have them contact Arrowhead about that Brux 50cal 1-24. While i like 8 land better......Brux makes an outstanding barrel.

Like you said if they cvan have arrowhead stuff, they should be able to get the barrel

 

[tpiton]

I just email Bullseyenorth shop. Il post update here. Hey, It might help them have another riffle up for sale in their inventory

 

[GM54-120]

Just for example

Vast majority of 50cal rifles are 1-28
Ultimate Firearms ML and Rem UML and i think PR 50s are 1-26
White Rifle, Savage MLII, Pedersoli, GMB sharpshooter barrels and a few newer Traditions models....1-24 twist
Paramount Pro 50 is 1-22

So i just have to wonder why in the world they would go for a 1-15 twist? IIRC even older Gunwerks 50cal was a 1-20 but their intent was to shoot longer pointy bullets in sabots. Such as the Parkers. Sabots can only handle so much rotational stress and their load data implies to use Savage load data so the 1-15 twist is basically useless for that data.

Something like a Barnes Original 300gr or 325gr FTX and 65-69gr of 4198 will blow a hole through almost anything with hooves. That combo could shoot fine in any typical 50cal twist and get you as much as 2400fps or maybe a tad more. It plenty lethal way past 200 yards.

VV N120 (60gr) and Reloder7 (no more than 65gr) will max out around 2300-2350 with a 300gr. Both will do that at no more than 35kpsi

Big boomers like a 400gr can be driven to around 2200-2250 with 4198 and IIRC 3031. Maybe 2015 also. Thats all from a factory OEM Savage barrel. While its not approved data the peak pressures would be plenty safe. Just hold on tight because loads like that can be brutal to shoot.

 

[tpiton]

Not to many options left to me for smokeless in canada. I guess i will just go with the paramount pro. Looks to have enough power for my moosse hunting needs

 

[gregdaws]

Not sure where you are in Canada but there is a guy in Ontario that runs a company called NINE35 and he imports barrels from companies such as Green Mountain and Shilen. I was introduced to him at my LGS as someone that could help me with my own needs living North of the boarder. He has the relevant licenses to import and told me to give him a call if there was something that I needed. Maybe he could help you.

As for smokeless North of the boarder there isn't too much, that's why the MLII goes for between $12 - 1,600 Canadian. Any custom guns seem to be Remington / Savage conversions in .45 sabotless. I nearly bought one last year in for $1,750 but hated the stock.

Changing the subject slightly. I checked out determining large / small shank by measuring at the nut but how would I determine if I was looking at a bare action. I ask because I am looking at a Savage short action with a 308 bolthead. Any advice appreciated.

 

[smokeeter]

If the nut is unavailable , measure the inside diameter of the receiver.
small shank is 1.055" and the large shank is 1.120"

 

[BadgerRidge]

I'd suggest you consider an old/used Remington 700 ML/MLS in 50, then modify it with our 209 kit, and Black Horn 209. You will get many of the advantages of a smokeless rig, and typically at much less $ spent. They have reputations as being low cost shooters, and with our kit, they are very reliable and will shoot any muzzle loader safe propellant... like BlackHorn if you can find it.

 

[tpiton]

I'd suggest you consider an old/used Remington 700 ML/MLS in 50, then modify it with our 209 kit, and Black Horn 209. You will get many of the advantages of a smokeless rig, and typically at much less $ spent. They have reputations as being low cost shooters, and with our kit, they are very reliable and will shoot any muzzle loader safe propellant... like BlackHorn if you can find it.

would this combo be better than a paramount pro?