Cutting off the QLA

[daveheffner110]

I have just been given a Black Mountain Magnum 50cal to play with. The owner has told me that he never could find anything that would group in the gun. It is a 1-28.

I have been reading many posts, for months, and lately trying to get my mind around sidelocks. Now I see what a QLA really is. I have been reading about what it was, but had never seen one until now. Could it be that the design was created to seat a conical, RB, sabot easily without having to push the projectile with your thumb?

Not having any luck myself with grouping, I would like to have that removed. The magnum barrel was designed by TC to be able to shoot 150 grains of powder/pellets, and the front sight which is screwed on the barrel would have to be cut off.

Who could I contact to do this work? The owner has allowed any modification to be done by me.

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[Omega218r]

Have you tried Hornady XTP pistol bullets with MMP HPH24 sabots? I know it’s a bit sacrilege out of a side lock but with that twist I bet they would shoot very accurately, they do out of my Omega with QLA

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Im sure there are good gunsmiths in your area. I would start by asking your friends and neighbors if they have someone they would recommend. Or call a few and explain to them that you want the qla cut off, barrel recrowned and sight reinstalled. I had it done to my black diamond and had a little bit of the rifling removed too. all in one piece, to use as a sizing die for that particular gun. They cut off about an inch and a half. now i have something that i can push conicals thru to size them to this gun. Cost was less than a $100. Next time I'm doing it myself tho.

https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder-reference-forum/369363-cutting-barrel-shorter.html

 

[daveheffner110]

I am certainly open to trying other options. Generally, in my inline, I have had good luck with Barnes 250 TEZ and Barnes MZ. My real desire is to find a good conical which should be working in the 1-28.

I will be trying the BullShop 460-504 and a Lee sizer at .501. All shooting so far has been Swiss 3F.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Omega218r]

Have you tried an over powder wad? Hornady Great Plains conicals didn’t shoot real well out of one of the Renegades until I tried an over powder wad. Might be something to try

 

[daveheffner110]

Yes, I always use the over powder wad. I have used them with sabots as well, but not with cotton balls, that is something to try as well.

 

[daveheffner110]

I took the Black Mountain Magnum barrel to the machine shop today to get the QLA cut off. The front sight will be repositioned, the barrel will get a new crown, the rib below the barrel will be shortened, and then I will trim down the loading rod.
The barrel is 1-28 twist, so I will be anxious to test some conical bullets and maybe a few sabots, using some Swiss. The first shots with the QLA never produced any acceptable results. I was able to get permission from the original owner to get the barrel cut down. I hope to be able to report some better results in the future.


Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[FredB]

Bestill, on this website, cut off a qla, and re-crowned a ml for me. He did a good job, at a fair price, and in a timely manner. I highly recommend him. Bestill Creations.

 

[GreenMtnHunter]

I have just been given a Black Mountain Magnum 50cal to play with. The owner has told me that he never could find anything that would group in the gun. It is a 1-28.
...
Not having any luck myself with grouping, I would like to have that removed. The magnum barrel was designed by TC to be able to shoot 150 grains of powder/pellets, and the front sight which is screwed on the barrel would have to be cut off.

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

My "Magnum" barrels (3) are Encore/PH/Endeavor with the QLA, so I am not supposing I know about other models; however, I got great deals on them because "The owner told me that he never could find anything that would group in the gun.", etc. In my experience, the issue has always been the three pellets or 150 grains. I have not removed the QLA because I worked up from 75 grns and found that 115 on top of a 250 grn Hornady/sabot cut the mustard! I have helped others who were about to sell their "Magnum" barrels to do the same thing - keep an awesome barrel. To be complete, I (we) hunt hilly, wooded areas. A 75yrd shot is about the longest. I have a local friend who claims his average, over the last 30 years, +/-45 recorded, freezer stuffers, is under 25 yards. I won't claim to have that kind of data, but my last shot was at 20 yards...totally buried the bullet in a hemlock sapling that was in line with the front leg at dusk.... ;-) I gotta learn to shoot lefty, darn it! Would'a had that deer in daylight!

 

[WV Hunter]

I have just been given a Black Mountain Magnum 50cal to play with. The owner has told me that he never could find anything that would group in the gun. It is a 1-28.

I have been reading many posts, for months, and lately trying to get my mind around sidelocks. Now I see what a QLA really is. I have been reading about what it was, but had never seen one until now. Could it be that the design was created to seat a conical, RB, sabot easily without having to push the projectile with your thumb?

Not having any luck myself with grouping, I would like to have that removed. The magnum barrel was designed by TC to be able to shoot 150 grains of powder/pellets, and the front sight which is screwed on the barrel would have to be cut off.

Who could I contact to do this work? The owner has allowed any modification to be done by me.

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

I assume you are trying to shoot conicals? The QLA's have definitely had their issues with conicals. However, most rifles with QLA's will shoot saboted loads just fine. I actually like the QLA idea, its just that some of them are mis-aligned, unfortunately.

Several folks on this board have cut them off themselves. You might search on Semisane... he did a write up on how to do it, and I know he's done it several times if I recall. If you can't find it here, look on huntingnet.com forum I know it is there. (the search process here with the new forum format doesn't seem to be as robust as it was before). RonLaughlin has also cut several off. And of course you could always send it out or take it to a gunsmith to be done. Going that route may cost more than the gun is worth, I don't know. Those were not high dollar rifles to begin with new. I'd try some 250-300gr bullets in a crush rib sabot, over 80-100gr powder before doing anything to the barrel.

 

[daveheffner110]

I will admit, placing a conical or sabot in the QLA was nice to start the round. This TC barrel was not centered with that QLA and a group of three shots was scattered at 50 yards. I also did not shoot heavy loads. Shooting a 400 gr. conical with 70-80 gr. is plenty for my needs.

I have watched the work of others doing this process and admired their meticulous work. For me, I decided to have it done. We will see if it helps.

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[mwwoodman]

This was my simple solution to align bullets. This plastic aligner simply slides on the muzzle. It is machined so the bores are concentric and have a good fit with slight clearance. They also match the contour on our Patriot barrels. Anyone with a lathe could make one to fit their muzzleloader.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

i have watched a couple videos on coning a barrel for round balls. They just add a slight taper to the first inch or two at the muzzle, still leaves the rifling intact. I wonder if that would also work for conicals and sabots?

 

[daveheffner110]

Two interesting ideas. Thank you for the great video on coning. I am also interested in seeing the reloading sequences in the field. As I progress into shooting these muzzleloaders, I will see how my loading in the field is affected without the QLA.


Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[michiganmuzzy]

This was my simple solution to align bullets. This plastic aligner simply slides on the muzzle. It is machined so the bores are concentric and have a good fit with slight clearance. They also match the contour on our Patriot barrels. Anyone with a lathe could make one to fit their muzzleloader.

View attachment 8085

What is the O.D. of the Patriot barrel? This may work, as is, on some guns, like my black diamond. I don't have a lathe but if it's close I could hand fit it.

 

[mwwoodman]

What is the O.D. of the Patriot barrel? This may work, as is, on some guns, like my black diamond. I don't have a lathe but if it's close I could hand fit it.

The Patriot barrel is tapered but measures .760" at the end. The inside of the aligner is cut to the same taper, .765" at the bottom of the counter bore, which is .75 deep. The opening of the bullet aligner is .772" so you can see the taper is .007" in 3/4 of an inch.

 

[daveheffner110]

mwwoodman, do you have a video about the loading sequence with your alignment piece? I believe more than a couple of us forum members would be interested in this device.
It was interesting to see your design features of the Patriot.

 

[daveheffner110]

michiganmuzzy, if you get ahold of one of these devices, make a video about the modification. I have enjoyed your videos about reloading in the field, especially noting the removal of the short starter for convenience.

 

[mwwoodman]

We will get a video done up and provide a link.

 

[daveheffner110]

I just picked up my barrel for the 50cal. Black Mountain Magnum this morning. Here are the photos of the work. For those who are interested, this work was done for $60.





The QLA was 7/8" deep and very nice to load conical or sabot. The front sight and the rib were moved back and the barrel was cold blued. Now for testing......