CVA Optima .50 Caliber Pistol Thoughts, And Range Report

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Busta

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I have been waiting for a Modern Inline Muzzleloading Pistol for a long time now. I even considered making one of my Sidekicks into a custom "Hand Cannon" for several years, but with all the gray areas and talking to the ATF that don't know any more than the book tells them, I decided I didn't want the "Men In Black" stopping by and putting me in one of those nice white jackets that buckle in the back. I even went so far as to have a concept done up, but that is as far as it has ever gotten.

Sidekick II Concept. Yeah, it's ugly.
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Fast forward to a couple weeks ago when I ordered one of these new elusive Optima Pistols. They told me it was in stock and I should receive it in a week to 10 days. Then I get an e-mail update on the process on around the 9th day, and it said the same thing the day i ordered it. So I called them, and they tell me it is now on back order! Needless to say, I wasn't very happy and told them they could cancel my order. I found a local dealer that said they would order one for me, but I made them call to make sure whoever they order from actually had them in front of them. Most all of these online dealers never even stock the inventory, they list what their distributor has in stock (or says they have in stock) as their stock, then order from the distributor AFTER you place your order. That is why it takes 7 to 10 days for something they list as being in stock. Enough of that!

I placed my order on Tuesday of this week with a local sporting good store, and was guaranteed that it would be in on Friday (yesterday). Finally, someone was able to keep their word, but I did have to pay retail for it. Sometimes it is worth it.

It came in a nice little box, that they neglected to put the serial number on the outside, but packaged satisfactorily enough to survive the Postal Gorillas.
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It is listed as having a 14" barrel, but take away 1-5/8" for the breech plug, and another 3/8" for the BGM (Bullet Guiding Muzzle, CVA's version of the QLA), you have just 12" of working barrel left.
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It also states that it comes with sling swivel studs, it does but just not installed. The one in the pistol grip is a little tough to get started but I prevailed. The one in the forestock actually replaces the forestock screw and belly button.
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The fluting on the right side of the barrel seems well done, however the left side leaves a lot to be desired.
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Moving on up to the frame. The casting lines/seams run along the upper and outer edge of the frame. This could easily be cleaned up before finishing to enhance the look and feel. The finish on the reciever also leaves a lot to be desired. Not sure of the process, but it appears to be not much more than silver paint. All of this is purely cosmetic in nature and should not affect function in any way.
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It does come supplied with a Weaver style scope mount, D&T'd for optional open sights.
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Of course it would not be complete with out a scope and sling. The scope is 23 years old, and proven. I pulled it off my Ruger Redhawk .44 Mag. I didn't want to throw out $300 for a new Leupold before I knew if this thing could shoot or not.
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Went to clean it up before heading out back to the range, and after getting the gritty Never Seize and OEM plug out went to work on the barrel, which was filthy. I worked on it for quite a while, but with the type of rifling CVA uses it still looked funny on the lands.

I had ordered the Blackhorn 209 Breech Plug from CVA last week. It has a 1/8" flame channel and a narrow but deep powder pocket. The OEM plug has a 3mm flame channel and flat faced plug with slight concave to the flash hole.
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The primer pocket in these breech plug is .250" diameter, while my custom plugs run around .243". The quarter inch diameter leaves the doors open for the European primers that run a little larger in diameter than our US primers. So the NSI 209 primers got the nod. They are longer like the Winchester W209, but will not fit in any other breech plugs I have but one, and they stick in that one. My firing pin bushing has an o-ring on the back, but not enough to keep it from being below the face of the standing breech. I added another like o-ring, and the headspace was perfect for the primers that I would be using. I went out back and fired 3 primers before heading out to the range. They all came out perfectly clean.

I had "eye ball" bore sighted the scope after mounting, and was sure it would be on paper, but set the target up at 25 yards for the first three shots. The first 3 shots were with 80 grains of BH209, 240 gr Cheap Shot, and the NSI 209 Primer. I was actually shocked at just how close it came, but the group needed some work. These are not the most accurate bullets by far, but I got a great deal on several packs a few years ago at $1.88 per 20 pack. The wind was gusting from R-L, with occasional luls to gusts that would nearly blow my chronograph and tripod over.

Here is the first 3 shot group. Close enough to go back to 50.
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This is my second group at 50 yards. 80 gr BH209, 200 gr Shockwave, and NSI primer. Yeah, that grin hasn't wore off yet.
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Back to the Cheap Shots again and 70 gr BH209. Two together, then one went high.
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Next up was 350 gr Hornady FPB's, 70 gr BH209, and NSI primer. These are usually outstanding shooters in my .502 bores, but I think I jacked them up trying to load them in this pistol without a short starter. 2 bullets hit high and left, the third just off the paper a hair, just left of the top hole.
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Then I had to go back to those 200 gr Shockwaves, with 80 gr BH209 and NSI primers. Just grinning again, and still. Looks like this is what she is gonna like.
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This is the overall target at 50 yards.
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I did shoot a couple groups at 100, the first group had two touching, then mis-timed the wind on the third and opened the group up to 2-1/2". This was with the light 200 gr Shockwaves and 80 gr BH209. I was getting 3-1/2" of wind drift at 100 yards. The last group I shot was with the 250 gr SST Low Drag red 3 petal sabots. That group is just a hair over 2".

Average velocities for the 200 gr Shockwaves and 80 gr BH209 was 1510 FPS.

Here is the breech plug and standing breech after the 21 shots, cleaner than a whistle.
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Old habits die hard, so even though it didn't need it, my breech plug was still pretty in pink after removal.
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One thing that really shocked me was the shockwave sabots hardly opened up at all, but shot the best of all the bullets today, outstanding actually. Here is some of the sabots, some primers, and the breech plug. All clean except for the business end.
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These breech plugs are unbelieveable, although I didn't shoot the OEM breech plug, the Blackhorn 209 breech plug worked flawlessly for 3 primers and 21 shots. The flame channel has a bit of carbon build up, but not even a hiccup. I will probably mod the OEM breech plug to a 5/32" flame channel and add a vent liner like my other custom breech plugs.

My overall thought of my first CVA, and muzzleloading pistol is cosmetically it could use some work, but it is mechanically sound, and a hoot to shoot. It has earned a trip to the woods this Tuesday, the opener of our general firearms season, and during our December muzzleloading season as well. Next range session will have to wait until after season, I will try more powder, but I can't imagine it shooting better than those 200 gr Shockwaves and 80 gr BH209.
 
Very nice shooting. That is quite a pistol you have there. It would be fun to hunt with that.
 
Excellent report Busta. Excellent shooting Busta.

About your thoughts to convert the plug to a 5/32" flame channel; i don't think it is best. It is my opinion that these longer plugs, have enough volume in the flame channel when it is 1/8" to shoot a way plenty shots without the carbon being an issue. Bernoulli' Principle shows the heat travels faster through the plug when the diameter is smaller.

Also, if you check, you will see the dimensions of the BH209 plug are near identical to an Omega plug. It seems to me CVA did very little engineering on the plug, but knew of the success of the Omega plug, so they just copied it. This is a shame, because by doing so, they made the flame channel too short. I do like the fact that they made the powder chamber 5/16" diameter, but it only had to be about 5/16" deep.

In my rifle, the QRBP astounded me, when i first used it, because of it's cleanliness. Myself, i use nothing on the threads, because nothing is needed. The seal the plug makes with the barrel is perfection. I never fired my rifle with the OEM plug. First thing i did was add a ventliner in a 5/16" chamber, which ended up being about 1/4" deep. Yes, this requires turning the vent liner, but i think it is 'best'. The flame channel in my plug is much longer than the CVA Black Horn plug, and i think it is better, because it has more volume to absorb carbon, and back pressure.

At any rate, i know you don't agree with my breech plug design, but in this case, it sure has been perfection. You, perhaps recall, i test all my plugs by leaving my rifles dirty, and loaded in the truck overnight in sub-zero weather.

Your gun seems to be an excellent shooter, as does the shooter seem to be an excellent shooter. Have all the fun!
 
mobowhntr said:
Are they classifying this as a pistol or is it still just a muzzleloader?

It's just a muzzleloader/antique, no 4473 paperwork or anything like that. Just pay for it and get your receipt.
 
ronlaughlin said:
Excellent report Busta. Excellent shooting Busta.

About your thoughts to convert the plug to a 5/32" flame channel; i don't think it is best. It is my opinion that these longer plugs, have enough volume in the flame channel when it is 1/8" to shoot a way plenty shots without the carbon being an issue. Bernoulli' Principle shows the heat travels faster through the plug when the diameter is smaller.

Also, if you check, you will see the dimensions of the BH209 plug are near identical to an Omega plug. It seems to me CVA did very little engineering on the plug, but knew of the success of the Omega plug, so they just copied it. This is a shame, because by doing so, they made the flame channel too short. I do like the fact that they made the powder chamber 5/16" diameter, but it only had to be about 5/16" deep.

In my rifle, the QRBP astounded me, when i first used it, because of it's cleanliness. Myself, i use nothing on the threads, because nothing is needed. The seal the plug makes with the barrel is perfection. I never fired my rifle with the OEM plug. First thing i did was add a ventliner in a 5/16" chamber, which ended up being about 1/4" deep. Yes, this requires turning the vent liner, but i think it is 'best'. The flame channel in my plug is much longer than the CVA Black Horn plug, and i think it is better, because it has more volume to absorb carbon, and back pressure.

At any rate, i know you don't agree with my breech plug design, but in this case, it sure has been perfection. You, perhaps recall, i test all my plugs by leaving my rifles dirty, and loaded in the truck overnight in sub-zero weather.

Your gun seems to be an excellent shooter, as does the shooter seem to be an excellent shooter. Have all the fun!

Ron,

No, I do agree with your for the hunter or short range session shooter. That is why I stoppped after 21 shots, the carbon was getting pretty thick in the flame channel. Had I kept going, some serious attention would have been required to keep it working, and preventing gas cutting. My range sessions can last for 40-60 shots on just one rifle, and with the larger diameter flame channel, I don't have to clean it until I clean the rifle, or in this case pistol. That is why I like the larger flame channel, and I have never had a problem with it not igniting in any type of weather.

I can also honestly say, I have never had any breech plug show any signs of gas cutting. I know the T/C Omega/Encore breech plug is notorious for gas cutting in the bottom/seat of the primer pocket. I think I remember reading where you had some gas cutting issues, and you replaced the primer pocket with a grade 8 bolt?

I know that Western designed the Blackhorn Breech plug to show CVA that it is probably the best design for igniting Blackhorn 209 when clean, or shooting around 20 shots. But if you were to keep shooting during an extended range session, say 40 to 60 shots without cleaning it you would be experiencing either blowback, gas cutting, hang fires, misfires, or all of the above.

The 5/32" flame channel has never let me down in any circumstance, the 1/8" flame channel has. Simple as that!
 
It doesn't seem to me that the breech plug that CVA is selling as a BH209 plug is the plug that Western Powders designed. To see Western Powders prototype look at the MAXmuzzleloading website. Russel did an article on the prototype. As i mentioned before, the CVA Blackhorn is just basically a copy of the Encore/Omega plug.

You are certainly correct about flame cutting of the primer seat when the flame channel gets more and more plugged. I have experienced this more than once. I agree, kinda stoopid of me to have this happen to me more than once; some things i can't help. The Omega plug has such a good design, it continues to ignite BH even when the flash channel is as small as 1/16".

When testing my modified QRBP in sub-zero weather, it seemed that ignition was sharper than i expected. This was using STS primer. The flame channel to begin with was left at 3mm. The flash hole was 0.029". I noticed this before i ever read about Bernoulli' Principle, and couldn't under stand why. Now that i have read Bernoulli' Principle, it kinda/sorta makes sense. One day whilst cleaning, i accidentally enlarged the flame channel to 1/8" with a drill powered in a drill motor. The plug still works great.

In my Omega plugs, and the old hex head CVA plugs, the flame channels are all 5/32". This is because of the same reasons you cited; it just is another example of how i am behinder.

In the long plugs like the QRBP, it seems to me one gets better results with the 1/8" flame channel. The longer length of the channel provides the larger volume required for more shooting at the range. Another thing to consider when using the QRBP, is the plug is so trivially easy to remove clean, and replace, at the range there is no reason it will ever get carboned shut. I do realize a 5/32" flame channel will work in the longer plugs, but i see no good reason for it, and am convinced the 1/8" channel provides better ignition, because the heat will travel faster through the breech plug, and more heat will reach the powder.






Another thing i don't recall you ever mentioning is the flash hole size in the vent liner. I have been making vent liners from made in USA Holo-Krome screws. I consistently make 20 vent liners from one #70 cobalt drill. This puts my cost per vent liner near $0.35 each. All purchased vent liner have at least a 0.032" flash hole. It has been my experience that a 0.028" flash hole works more better. The smaller flash hole will last longer before the vent liner needs to be tossed, and it is as reliable as the larger flash hole, and i have measured larger velocities using the smaller flash hole.
 
03mossy said:
Great report!

Where did you order it from?

03mossy,

I first ordered it from TGS, it was listed as in stock on their website, and the guy told me it was in stock. Then I get an e-mail about 9 days later stating the same thing it did the day I ordered it, so I called them and was told that it was on back order, so I told them they could cancel that order. I lost about 10 days there, so I ended up ordering it from a local sporting goods store, and I am not sure who they ordered it from, but Ellet Bros would be my guess.
 
Nice report Busta but I'm wondering about the recoil. How hard does it kick?
 
Good shooting Busta! Nice report. What was your opinion of the trigger quality? Must be at least pretty good!

Apex!! ;)
 
Thanks for the kind words guys, It will be slung over my shoulder tomorrow morning.


johnpb,

It kicks about like a hot loaded .44 MAG with 80 gr BH209. It is a hand full, but not that bad, unless a guy has bad wrists. I am not sure yet how it is with 100 gr loads, but the way those 200 grainers shot with 80 gr, it might be a while before I find out.

UC,

You know, I realized that I left that out after I had posted. The trigger is about 3lbs by my GUESS, no creep, and breaks clean. Very nice trigger as long as you have it locked up correctly. If your primer is preventing it from locking-up tight, it will not allow you to cock it.

I have my headspace adjusted so my primers just fit once locked-up, and you can push forward on the breeching lever just a touch to even get a little tighter lock-up.

I'm not that great of a shot, I lack a lot of discipline at the bench, so I was very impressed at how it was shooting the 200 grain bullets. Maybe I was just lucky, the stars were all lined up, or I just happened to be holding my mouth the right way. Sometimes, I actually thought I might have missed the paper, only to walk down range to find that the bullet holes were touching. :shock:

Yeah that Apex has been working on me for a few years now, and it is much higher quality than this Optima. Like I have said before, a brown laminate stock on the Apex would push me over the edge. :wink:
 
Busta said:
...................................the stars were all lined up, or I just happened to be holding my mouth the right way..........................
Myself, i try as hard as i could, but i never know if i am holding my mouth right. It could be, i have never held it right.

Keep up the good work!!
 
Nice shooting! Great report, and very interesting muzzy/pistol. Those 50 yard groups with the Shockwaves are amazing. I wish you good luck hunting with this new addition. In the future, I might suggest trying out the .40 cal 200 XTP's since the 200 Shockwaves shot so good. If you are averaging 1500 fps or so, the 200 XTP will work perfectly at this velocity. The 200 Shockwaves should work good too, though probably won't expand as much. I've used both quite a bit for the past 5 years. The 200 XTP expands better at lower velocities. I hit a buck several years ago with the 200 XTP that impacted at about 1500 fps (MV of 1800, range was 110 yards), it was a pass-thru with a golf ball-sized exit hole. The buck was DRT.
 
In Michigan, doesn't a black powder pistol still require the same "safety permit" from the local police department before you can legally purchase?
 
ram2 said:
In Michigan, doesn't a black powder pistol still require the same "safety permit" from the local police department before you can legally purchase?

Nope! Not unless it is a Contender/Encore type that can be fitted with barrels capable of shooting cartridges. Then it would be a 4473 "FIREARM". This is only a muzzleloader, and classified under "ANTIQUE".
 
Busta has something else to report so far as using this pistol (something good) but he's holding off until the pics are uploaded. :D
 
Busta said:
ram2 said:
In Michigan, doesn't a black powder pistol still require the same "safety permit" from the local police department before you can legally purchase?

Nope! Not unless it is a Contender/Encore type that can be fitted with barrels capable of shooting cartridges. Then it would be a 4473 "FIREARM". This is only a muzzleloader, and classified under "ANTIQUE".


Then why can't Cabelas ship muzzleloaders directly to Michigan residents?
 
ram2 said:
Busta said:
ram2 said:
In Michigan, doesn't a black powder pistol still require the same "safety permit" from the local police department before you can legally purchase?

Nope! Not unless it is a Contender/Encore type that can be fitted with barrels capable of shooting cartridges. Then it would be a 4473 "FIREARM". This is only a muzzleloader, and classified under "ANTIQUE".


Then why can't Cabelas ship muzzleloaders directly to Michigan residents?

They can. I can order one any time and have it shipped directly to my house. There is something you need to do first before you can do this.

Call Cabelas and ask to speak to their GUN DEPARTMENT and ask that they send you a VOI (Verification Of Information) Form. This is a form that you must have on file with Cabelas to purchase a Paintball Gun, Black Powder Rifle, or Black powder Pistol.

It is simply a one page form that you enter your name, address, city, State, Zip, DOB, and age.

Below that is a statement "I am not under indictment for, nor have I been convicted of a felony punishable by imprisonment for four (4) years or more; or as provided by law, I have met the conditions after conviction with my rights being restored."

Below that is a signature line for you to sign. Then have a Notory Public sign, date, and stamp it with their seal.

Either send in the original, or fax it back to Cabelas. They will keep this on file in the "Gun Department" and you can order all the black powder rifles and pistols that you can afford.

I know it is a pain in the butt, but it only is once. It is really quite painless.
 
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