CVA Paramount Pro (custom killer?)

[Bigeclipse]

If you haven't heard CVA has released another long range option for muzzleloaders. it is called the Paramount Pro. It is based off the Paramount, but has some stellar upgrades. It comes with a cerakote finish on top of the nitride finish, Greybow Fiberglass stock which reduces weight, Triggertech trigger, and finally a threaded muzzle with brake. The only negative I can see compared to Custom muzzleloaders is it is not smokeless rated so you can only do loads up to 150grains bh209. For really far distances, smokeless is the way to go but if you hunt inside 500 yards this might be a much cheaper option. All this at only MSRP of 1499$ which is well under most custom costs (2500-3000$). Do I think it will kill custom muzzleloader market....no, but it certainly could add some great competition to the market. What are your thoughts?

 

[GM54-120]

Yes we heard a little while ago if you want to dig back a few topics.

The big negative is that leaking Variflame system. So add another $200ish to the cost to fix that permanently. Still not a bad price if the actual street price is as low as im guessing. Not a huge fan of 1-22 when a 1-20 will perform better with some bullets. Plus its fine for sabots also. I have both twists so im pretty confident about this.

Not sure how you figure MUCH cheaper though. You can spin a Brux Remage barrel on a variety of Rem700 actions. Once the barrel is off its not that hard. A Remage barrel with plug and modules is not cheap but its far superior and plenty strong for any load of BH209 you care to shoot. A regular Brux is several hundred less but a smith or someone with those skills would be needed. That barrel would be even stronger.

 

[Bigeclipse]

The big negative is that leaking Variflame system. So add another $200ish to the cost to fix that permanently. Still not a bad price if the actual street price is as low as im guessing. Not a huge fan of 1-22 when a 1-20 will perform better with some bullets. Plus its fine for sabots also. I have both twists so im pretty confident about this.

Not sure how you figure MUCH cheaper though. You can spin a Brux Remage barrel on a variety of Rem700 actions. Once the barrel is off its not that hard. A Remage barrel with plug and modules is not cheap but its far superior and plenty strong for any load of BH209 you care to shoot.

This is true but you must remember a couple thing, using a rem700 action makes it still a rifle which means it must be shipped via FFL. Most "typical" people will buy off the shelf rifles they can order online. Secondly, Last I calculated a build like you suggest, including gunsmithing costs to screw on the barrel....it was going to be about 2000$. $650 for action with true/blueprinting, $500 for barrel, $200 for brake, $150 for nice trigger, and $400+ dollars for a nice stock. To have the stock properly bedded and all other work (which most people don't want to do themselves) would be another 200-300$. That is already a minimum of $500 dollars more.

The regular Paramount is just fine out to 500 yards but is heavy and kicks like a mule. This one should do much better is all I was saying.

 

[GM54-120]

What?...You can buy a Rem700 SS action already modded slightly for under $500? You can start with a Rem700 UML also and just spin the Remage Brux on yourself. Ive seen that rifle for $800 or less. Hankins sells the actions ready to go for right at $395. Another $50 for bolt timing.

Sorry just not seeing much cheaper when you figure in a cut rifled barrel with a better twist and a better ignition system. That stock they use on the Pro is about $350 street price.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I have high hopes for the Paramount and its never been a secret that I've never liked BPI/CVA rifles.
Its been discussed in other threads the things they likely could/should have done different. Owners can make the upgrades.
The trigger upgrade will be nice, but little to .015" over travel may be an issue for some hunters.
As for the brake, well, it'll help as an entry level brake. IMO it should have been a complete load through funnel for it.
CVA should get a team to Friendship in May to the match and quit BS'ing owners that it'll only shoot 150grs V accurately.
Custom killer? For those still wanting the very best, nope.
Only my 2¢

 

[GM54-120]

I think CVA did a great thing with the Pro but its not nearly enough for me to switch from what i already have including my smokers.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I think CVA did a great thing with the Pro but its not nearly enough for me to switch from what i already have including my smokers.

Yeah if im gonna spend that much im gonna get a SML

 

[Bigeclipse]

What?...You can buy a Rem700 SS action already modded slightly for under $500? You can start with a Rem700 UML also and just spin the Remage Brux on yourself. Ive seen that rifle for $800 or less. Hankins sells the actions ready to go for right at $395. Another $50 for bolt timing.

Sorry just not seeing much cheaper when you figure in a cut rifled barrel with a better twist and a better ignition system. That stock they use on the Pro is about $350 street price.

I am not seeing your prices either. Even with your prices, let's say $500 dollars for action, Remage tools (I do own them already but most people wont), still need a trigger upgrade because Remington's SUCK and that is fact. Still need to do stock work which most people wont do themselves so still need to pay a gunsmith. Still need to buy a good muzzlebrake. So that price will still exceed the cost of a Paramount by several hundred dollars if not more. As far as your 800$ quote...that is for used gear. Show me 800$ for a brand new muzzleloader as you described. FYI, the Paramounts use Bergara barrels which are right up there with custom barrels. that all being said...yes custom Muzzleloaders are certainly better but this is definitely a step in the right direction for over the counter muzzleloaders as far as I am concerned.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Yeah if im gonna spend that much im gonna get a SML

Smokeless is still illegal in many states but yes, I think they should have done a smokeless rating!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Smokeless is still illegal in many states but yes, I think they should have done a smokeless rating!

I can hope and plan for a day when they let me use smokeless. If not, i still will get much use out of it.

 

[GM54-120]

Muzzle brake is not included in the Pro price. Its just threaded already. So that point is moot.
I can get the same stock for a Rem action for $400 or less...It not like it comes bedded is it?
Trigger Tech Primary is around $130-150 at the most. MSRP is $145

There you go, $900 for the Rem700UML with the B&C stock. Ive seen them even around $100 cheaper too. Laminates for close to $700.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/rem_uml/

And like i said there will be no comparison between a cut rifled Brux and a Bergara when you are talking about sabotless shooting. The Brux is a top shelf barrel and won many shooting events with that exact same barrel. Show me one Bergara that has ever placed within the top 5 in a major inline shooting match. Fact is they have not and they have been out for years. Brux has proven its worth on numerous occasions and used by numerous SML builders.

Add another $200 to get rid of that horrid Variflame and the price difference gets pretty small.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Muzzle brake is not included in the Pro price. Its just threaded already. So that point is moot.
I can get the same stock for a Rem action for $400 or less...It not like it comes bedded is it?
Trigger Tech Primary is around $130-150 at the most. MSRP is $145

There you go, $900 for the Rem700UML with the B&C stock. Ive seen them even around $100 cheaper too. Laminates for close to $700.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/rem_uml/

And like i said there will be no comparison between a cut rifled Brux and a Bergara when you are talking about sabotless shooting. The Brux is a top shelf barrel and won many shooting events with that exact same barrel. Show me one Bergara that has ever placed within the top 5 in a major inline shooting match. Fact is they have not and they have been out for years. Brux has proven its worth on numerous occasions and used by numerous SML builders.

Add another $200 to get rid of that horrid Variflame and the price difference gets pretty small.

You are wrong. The pro does come with a brake! At least that is what they said at Shotshow.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Muzzle brake is not included in the Pro price. Its just threaded already. So that point is moot.
I can get the same stock for a Rem action for $400 or less...It not like it comes bedded is it?
Trigger Tech Primary is around $130-150 at the most. MSRP is $145

There you go, $900 for the Rem700UML with the B&C stock. Ive seen them even around $100 cheaper too. Laminates for close to $700.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/rem_uml/

And like i said there will be no comparison between a cut rifled Brux and a Bergara when you are talking about sabotless shooting. The Brux is a top shelf barrel and won many shooting events with that exact same barrel. Show me one Bergara that has ever placed within the top 5 in a major inline shooting match. Fact is they have not and they have been out for years. Brux has proven its worth on numerous occasions and used by numerous SML builders.

Add another $200 to get rid of that horrid Variflame and the price difference gets pretty small.

Remington UL muzzleloader has a hit or miss barrel so you still forgot about barrel change

Lastly, I am a competition shooter and have shot MANY custom rigs and barrels and you can bet your butt the higher end bergara barrels are of custom quality!

lastly, the updated variflame, while not great ignites BH209 perfectly fine.

 

[GM54-120]

Uh no i didnt miss a thing. You did...try reading my first and second post again.

 

[GM54-120]

You are wrong. The pro does come with a brake!

He says right at the end of the video its a $90 option. The barrel just comes threaded....NEXT

 

[Bigeclipse]

He says right in the video its a $90 option. The barrel just comes threaded....NEXT

Well I stand corrected. I was at SHOT and they said for the 1499 price it was included. Maybe there will be a 1399$ price then now which would be great! you still did not include the 200-300$ worth of tools needed to go remage custom barrel route NEXT or the fact Remington quality is very hit or miss especially in their barrels.

 

[GM54-120]

ASG will do all the work on your Rem700UML for around $1105 parts included. Sizing die included. Not even Remage but a full sized Brux with a 1.2"+ shank.
Supply your own Rem700UML...Ive seen them for as low as $730 in laminate but lets go with the $850 B&C. Ive seen them often for around that price.
$1955

Paramount Pro $1499
ASG LRMP system $175 on sale atm
Swinglock die $160
And it still wont break 2500fps with a 275gr bullet

Yep, not seeing the MUCH cheaper for a rifle that will never be smokeless rated or ever have a barrel as uniform as a cut rifled Brux. Please keep us updated when you get one and compete with it. Fresh competition would be great. Its all Knights and customs spanking the competition for the most part. They need some fresh blood.

 

[ENCORE50A]

For those wanting a high quality custom rifle, the Paramount will have no affect on those buyers, or custom builders, some of who are booked 2yrs out. Its actually quite silly to think it would affect custom rifle sales at all.
So far its only a different rifle and new to the market. It has yet to showcase its abilities in actual competition. CVA has been invited...…..

 

[52Bore]

I don’t think it will do anything a regular Paramount, Knight, White or Sidelock 45 1:18 to 1:22 twist can’t do, with respect to how far one can accurately shoot.

 

[GM54-120]

Might even save a few more $$$ at ASG if he offers the Pros already upgraded to the ASG LRMP setup like he did with the Paramount. I actually liked the option of the older model and add a more hunting friendly stock later. He was around $1100 for it already modified so there is some wiggle room there.

That HMR stock is not cheap if you like it for bench work vs the Greybo.