CVA Paramount Pro V2…Does Ferrari make these?

[Pathfinder60]

folks seem to love their pre-covid bergera labeled CVA guns . and oddly since covid the wolfs and optimas seem to be what's still getting good to great comments by what i see on this forum , even though they're made in the same factory FWIU .

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...en one of,social impact is without precedent.
yeah cro$$bow prices have been CRAZY for a while .

You bring up an important distinction with these CVA rifles. You site COVID as the line in the sand but I'd like to suggest perhaps a different line. And that would be when CVA decided to put all their eggs in the ELR basket. It's been since that time that Bergara barrelled rifles began showing signs of quality issues. My Accura V2 Plains Rifle was made 2 years before the Paramount I have. The former's bore was spot on. The latter was an insult to the trade of competent machinists and barrel makers everywhere. There is something very wrong going on inside the BPI/CVA/Bergara organization and the proof is the rifles they're turning out. As I said before...buyer beware.

 

[Heat]

My new Optima seems to hold the trend. Shot great, bore seems impeccable to me.

 

[deermanok]

I can't speak to the Paramount but my Optima pistol and rifle, along with my newly acquired Wolf all seem to be top notch. No barrel issues that I can see.

 

[Pathfinder60]

My new Optima seems to hold the trend. Shot great, bore seems impeccable to me.

And that seems to be the crazy thing about all this madness...the Optima and the Wolf 50 cal rifles seem to be somehow spared the shortcomings the more expensive models are experiencing. Sort of counterintuitive isn't it?

 

[a cloud of smoke]

I googled cva barrel issues and came up with this from cva..what do you think?..BS excuse or it has merit for the accuracy problems...heres the link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ting-hunters&usg=AOvVaw0SFhFPgl39U9fQQIDkYgE-

CVA Issues Update on Accuracy Problems Affecting Hunters​

2021 has been rocky for muzzleloading manufacturers of all sizes. From supply chain shortages and disruptions to logistics nightmares causing delays for just about everyone, from the top to the bottom we’ve felt the hurt.
Latest in this year of pain is a series of accuracy issues from hunters shooting CVAs for the 2021 season. First spotted on the forums a week ago, shooters were finding their new and old CVA muzzleloader weren’t shooting accurately. Theories ranged from junk new models recently sold by CVA, to theories about Hodgdon changing the formula for Blackhorn 209 (Both of which we know to be false at this time). None of these theories explained the issues CVA owners were having with guns that shot fine earlier in the year.
CVA dug in to find the issue and looks to have found the common denominator. All the CVA muzzleloaders with issues were shooting Paramount or Accura rifles in the .40 or .45 caliber models.
Turns out a bad batch of Powerbelt bullets are to blame, more specifically the plastic skirt wasn’t molded correctly, throwing off the balance of the bullet in flight. See the photos and statement released by CVA brand manager Jason Sebo below:

The skirts in question look like this, pictured above, an uneven thickness all the way around.

Powerbelt skirts SHOULD look like this, even all the way around.

ATTENTION ALL PARAMOUNT AND/OR POWERBELT ELR SHOOTERS:
Several CVA customers have recently reported serious accuracy issues with their .45 caliber or .40 caliber Paramount, Paramount HTR, Paramount PRO, or Accura rifles. For some shooters, the gun may have shot great groups in the past, but suddenly developed issues. For some with the newer .40 caliber Paramount guns, accuracy issues may have occurred right out of the box.
WE HAVE FOUND THE PROBLEM, and it has to do with the plastic “belt” on the bottom of the PowerBelt ELR Bullets. It is not an issue with the rifle. Apparently, in a few production runs the mold for the belts was not properly installed into the plastic injection machine. This caused the bases to not be symmetrical or concentric (please see the attached photos). This defect in the belt causes it to not to break away completely from the base of the bullet when exiting the muzzle, and sometimes the thicker side will stay attached, creating a sail like effect on the bullet. The result is terrible groups and possibly even some “key-hole” impacts. Luckily, this defect was limited to a relatively small portion of our production, but some .45s did get out to some retailers and almost all of the bullets included with the initial shipments of the Paramount .40s had this problem.
If you have experienced any accuracy issues while shooting .40 caliber or .45 caliber ELR bullets, please inspect the belt of the bullets, viewing it from the rear as shown in the photos. If you see that one side is thicker than the other, you have some of the defective production and you need to contact our Customer Service Department at 770-449-4687, or by email at [email protected].
We are very sorry for any issues or inconveniences this has caused you during your hunting season, but we’re here to make this right for you! Thank you for your continued support of CVA and PowerBelt ELR Bullets.
Best of luck this fall,
Jason Sebo (Brand Manager – BPI Outdoors)

While I’m happy to hear CVA is on top of this issue and working with hunters to get them back in the field with proper bullets, I’m sure many hunters are feeling the crunch of time now. With powder and primer shortages still limiting many a hunters’ access to the woods, and delayed rifle shipments pushing sight in times to early October, it’s been a rough year.
Most of these issues are out of CVA’s, or any one manufacturers, hands. Getting upset and leaving angry comments doesn’t help anyone through this issue. I hope the hunters out there haven’t lost any record bucks or bulls and can get back in the field as soon as possible.

Huntingmuzzleloader huntingCVAPowerbelt

Commen​

 

[white eagle]

All I know is by them not having a Paramount in 40 cal I went to Knight and bought a Peregrine. Not sure of the barrels on the CVA but I think Knight has it pegged.
I fired this group today with my Peregrine
100 yds 130/w gr blackhorn 209 with 225 gr ELR
The top is where the staple is can't turn it for whatever reason

 

[Pathfinder60]

I googled cva barrel issues and came up with this from cva..what do you think?..BS excuse or it has merit for the accuracy problems...heres the link
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ting-hunters&usg=AOvVaw0SFhFPgl39U9fQQIDkYgE-

CVA Issues Update on Accuracy Problems Affecting Hunters​

2021 has been rocky for muzzleloading manufacturers of all sizes. From supply chain shortages and disruptions to logistics nightmares causing delays for just about everyone, from the top to the bottom we’ve felt the hurt.
Latest in this year of pain is a series of accuracy issues from hunters shooting CVAs for the 2021 season. First spotted on the forums a week ago, shooters were finding their new and old CVA muzzleloader weren’t shooting accurately. Theories ranged from junk new models recently sold by CVA, to theories about Hodgdon changing the formula for Blackhorn 209 (Both of which we know to be false at this time). None of these theories explained the issues CVA owners were having with guns that shot fine earlier in the year.
CVA dug in to find the issue and looks to have found the common denominator. All the CVA muzzleloaders with issues were shooting Paramount or Accura rifles in the .40 or .45 caliber models.
Turns out a bad batch of Powerbelt bullets are to blame, more specifically the plastic skirt wasn’t molded correctly, throwing off the balance of the bullet in flight. See the photos and statement released by CVA brand manager Jason Sebo below:

The skirts in question look like this, pictured above, an uneven thickness all the way around.

Powerbelt skirts SHOULD look like this, even all the way around.

While I’m happy to hear CVA is on top of this issue and working with hunters to get them back in the field with proper bullets, I’m sure many hunters are feeling the crunch of time now. With powder and primer shortages still limiting many a hunters’ access to the woods, and delayed rifle shipments pushing sight in times to early October, it’s been a rough year.
Most of these issues are out of CVA’s, or any one manufacturers, hands. Getting upset and leaving angry comments doesn’t help anyone through this issue. I hope the hunters out there haven’t lost any record bucks or bulls and can get back in the field as soon as possible.

Huntingmuzzleloader huntingCVAPowerbelt

Commen​

Typical big business bullshit sidestep of the REAL issues that are plaguing the CVA brand. All they can focus on is their substandard bullets instead of addressing their production problems with their barrel bores. "First showed up a week ago on the forums"...what a joke! They are over a year behind on that headline! Then they spent beaucoup bucks on a world class marksman (that they lured away from Knight by the way $$$) to take their flagship rifle to Friendship to prove to everyone that their stuff was top notch...even though the rifle and ammo he used you can't buy!
This is not the 1st time this brand has been caught with it's pants down. Going back to the late 90's and interestingly enough that debacle revolved around crappy barrels from an inferior producer. In fairness it was the move to Bergara that salvaged the CVA brand which is why I can't begin to understand why they have allowed their good reputation to be sullied by the fools at CVA/BPI. I just wish I would have bought that Knight 500 when I had the chance...

 

[Pathfinder60]

All I know is by them not having a Paramount in 40 cal I went to Knight and bought a Peregrine. Not sure of the barrels on the CVA but I think Knight has it pegged.
I fired this group today with my Peregrine
100 yds 130/w gr blackhorn 209 with 225 gr ELR
The top is where the staple is can't turn it for whatever reason

You DEFINITELY made the right choice there!

 

[WV Hunter]

WAY Overpriced. Inferior quality. Designed to shoot proprietary bullets. Play the blame game. What a joke.

NOT A BETTER GUN. Maybe they should look into changing their slogan...

 

[WV Hunter]

All I know is by them not having a Paramount in 40 cal I went to Knight and bought a Peregrine. Not sure of the barrels on the CVA but I think Knight has it pegged.
I fired this group today with my Peregrine
100 yds 130/w gr blackhorn 209 with 225 gr ELR
The top is where the staple is can't turn it for whatever reason

Nice! I'd take one of those in a second. In fact, I'd probably take a first gen MK-85 over a CVA.
Congrats on your rifle, that's what its all about!

 

[dwm]

I think green mountain barrels are top notch.you’re probably better off finding a good used disc elite for around 400 than spending big on CVA and being disappointed.all of my knights shoot fantastic

 

[drpatton]

A company will produce and sell what the customer will buy. The quality of the product is related to the amount of respect the company has for its customers.

 

[Steelheader323]

I see a lot of guys running cva rifles on the Facebook pages and every other post is a complaint about stock fitment to the barrel , over bore size..the list goes on..I myself bought a paramount first gen .45 and it shot the elr bullets decently with an 82g/weight charge of bh209..but I tried other bullets (some fury’s and Parker’s I had already) and all I was doing was throwing dollar bills down range! some even key holed…I tried different weights and nothing shot well..everything had to have a heavy knurling before I even got consistent ignition. I sold it to a friend of mine who if I’m not mistaken just re sold it again..

I was very hesitant to even buy the rifle in the first place because In my honest opinion cva has always had very clunky and cheap feeling rifles…buttttt I felt I shoukd give the paramount a try after years of being away from cva, I was wrong ..my 20+ year old omegas shoot darn near whatever I feed them just fine and typically Moa or better, and I have no doubt that my sml omega build will out shoot any cva on the market and it’s costing me half the price. Between the build quality and push to shoot over priced powerbelts I no longer support anything cva has to offer.

I should have waited and put the money on the a Knight peregrine , I feel there is a good chance I’d still have it today. But I am sure I’ll be more more than happy with my sml omega for a longer range rifle once it’s finished

 

[rangerod]

Seems to me kinda the law of diminishing returns. The more you spend above and beyond what would otherwise be spent the less you get on the extra expenditure.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Ive been a dyed in the wool, diehard, koolaid drinking CVA shooter for many years. Til i started hearing and seeing reports and complaints about their guns. Knight and White had been very consistent with their quality despite changing ownership. CVA hasn't even changed ownership and is having issues. But are these problems being reported back to them by the normal shooters? or are we, the crazy diehard, all year ML psycho’s, the only ones who can tell the difference? I am so immersed in the ML experience/lifestyle/fanclub that I have a different perspective then all my regular hunting compadres. They couldnt care less about the barrel consistency or stock fit. They expect little from a muzzleloader and dont even shoot them now that Michigan allows straight wall cartridges and shot guns during the former ML season. I MIGHT make them rethink that, if i were to outshoot their 450s and 350s with one of my MLs, but most don't want to put in any extra work to hunt in a season that doesn't exist anymore, with a gun that, in their opinion, doesn't have the range/accuracy/capacity that their new gun has. To put it shorter, they don't care. If their $5-600 ml isn't accurate… meh, whatever, they’ll shoot the other guns. I don't think there are enough real complaints about the guns coming from the average shooters to get CVA/BPIs attention… for now.
Sorry for the longwinded rant, ive had a few delicious high octane beers and my mind has wandered.

 

[MrTom]

All of my CVA guns are or older than 6 years old. They all have consistent barrels and shoot great. Super good accuracy. All of the long guns are 150 capable but I don't come close to that in charges. I don't need to. It's the so-called long range and bolt guns that seem to have issues in the CVA line. And if I have been reading correctly it's been the .45 caliber barrels that are junk. One of the common venders that hosts a lot of CVA has stocked heavily in the .45 arena and is now finding themselves hostage to all the bad rag on CVA .45s. One would think that the venders that sell the guns would be harping on CVA for having to deal with unhappy customers. I haven't got any answers. Maybe CVA will have to undergo another collapse before they get their greedy heads out of their nether regions?

 

[Heat]

On the flip side I just read a report today online about a guy all excited about his new Knight Mountaineer. Got to the range, shot his gun once. Primer stuck and he went home. It's ridiculous that you could spend over $900 on a new Muzzleloader and can't get more than one shot down range. Our cheap Wolf ran without a hiccup along with a new Optima. Both brand new, no issues for us. I'm not a CVA fanboy either.

If Knight had a mid range Made in USA Break Action muzzleloader that was readily available, I would have bought one of those. Since Thompson Center dropped the ball, it seems like there is a big gaping hole for someone to fill in the muzzleloader market. CVA can't seem to get it done. Knight doesn't even seem to be trying. Woodman seems like a great option but I have a hard time waiting half a year for a gun I haven't even been able to hold and feel. No Woodmans out West that I have ever seen on the shelf.

 

[Heat]

All of my CVA guns are or older than 6 years old. They all have consistent barrels and shoot great. Super good accuracy. All of the long guns are 150 capable but I don't come close to that in charges. I don't need to. It's the so-called long range and bolt guns that seem to have issues in the CVA line. And if I have been reading correctly it's been the .45 caliber barrels that are junk. One of the common venders that hosts a lot of CVA has stocked heavily in the .45 arena and is now finding themselves hostage to all the bad rag on CVA .45s. One would think that the venders that sell the guns would be harping on CVA for having to deal with unhappy customers. I haven't got any answers. Maybe CVA will have to undergo another collapse before they get their greedy heads out of their nether regions?

Too many vendors are just fine with just moving product along without even opening a box or inspecting it in any way. They could seem to care less. Kinda like a drug dealer, just a middle man. Then they have the audacity to say you can't return it. LOL!

 

[JeffB1961]

But are these problems being reported back to them by the normal shooters? or are we, the crazy diehard, all year ML psycho’s, the only ones who can tell the difference?

just shot a ML the first time a few months ago so i'me certianly not one of those folks . but , since i'm a member here taking advantantage of the best enabelers available for muzzleloading i guess i have an advantage .

Too many vendors are just fine with just moving product along without even opening a box or inspecting it in any way. They could seem to care less. Kinda like a drug dealer, just a middle man. Then they have the audacity to say you can't return it. LOL!

MidwayUSA did me %100 right on my return of the MRX

 

[rangerod]

On the flip side I just read a report today online about a guy all excited about his new Knight Mountaineer. Got to the range, shot his gun once. Primer stuck and he went home. It's ridiculous that you could spend over $900 on a new Muzzleloader and can't get more than one shot down range. Our cheap Wolf ran without a hiccup along with a new Optima. Both brand new, no issues for us. I'm not a CVA fanboy either.

If Knight had a mid range Made in USA Break Action muzzleloader that was readily available, I would have bought one of those. Since Thompson Center dropped the ball, it seems like there is a big gaping hole for someone to fill in the muzzleloader market. CVA can't seem to get it done. Knight doesn't even seem to be trying. Woodman seems like a great option but I have a hard time waiting half a year for a gun I haven't even been able to hold and feel. No Woodmans out West that I have ever seen on the shelf.

Knight does have a mid range break open called the Vision. I bought one about four years ago. 209 ready. Shoots as good as any other gun I have. After having one I can't help but think they're underated.