CVA Paramount Pro V2…Does Ferrari make these?

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I’m the OP….Wow.. I am getting quite the education on the CVA brand.

I’m 50 years into serious muzzleloading but only 2 years into owning any in-line gun…two CVA 45 cal 1st generation 2005 Optimas brand new barrels and two CVA 2005 Kodiak Pro Magnums…1 in 45cal brand new barrel the other in 50….(these were dirt cheap averaging about $ 130…one was $64 on auction at Gunbroker.)

All of these bargain guns I bought have good to excellent hunting triggers and shoot 1.5 -2 inches @100yds with T7 powder and lots of barrel swabbing and the 1st clean barrel shot ( the money shot) hits exactly where it’s expected with Dead Center bullets or Hornady XTPs in crushrib sabot.
I started this thread because CVA thinks $1920 is a fair price for a gun.
I disagree
Their obsolete models with the “good“ barrels shoot better than great out to 200yds….
I had no idea that guys were having all these issues with CVA guns.
 
Knight does have a mid range break open called the Vision. I bought one about four years ago. 209 ready. Shoots as good as any other gun I have. After having one I can't help but think they're underated.
the vision is a nice little rifle and at a good price..I don’t see Knight coming out with any others tho..they sell enough bolt guns that they have no real need to downgrade to a break action model..other than being easier to clean they don’t have any benefits over a bolt gun. I’m fairly certain if the mk-85 was still in production they would sell lol
 
Knight does have a mid range break open called the Vision. I bought one about four years ago. 209 ready. Shoots as good as any other gun I have. After having one I can't help but think they're underated.
wish these would come back into stock, I would probably get one.
 
Would just like to say l own a 2021 paramount. Weather it's different than the earlier ones I can't say. What I can say in my experience with it is I wasn't happy with the gun at first. Once I saw how undersized the power belts were I realized the problem. The gun has a sabot barrel!!! IMHO. It isn't the bore is over sized. The bullet is undersized for a land rider. A call to fury bullets fixed that problem. The only trouble I had after that was getting greasers to shoot. Still can't find away to do that short of pp or cutting the barrel down and recrowning it. The rifle loves sabots. Powerbelt barrels are sabot barrels. Anyway once I figured it out the rifle has become a favorite. Very happy. So yes it's the Ferrari and knights the Lamborghini of mass production over the counter brand name muzzleloaders. IMHO lol. Once you figure one out it's a game changer. Just ask Gary Brakebill. Sorry forgot how to spell the man's name my apologies. How he must of felt winning against the shooters with 5 to 7 thousand dollar guns is well just marvelous to me. So is his rifle worth the money??? I'd say every penny. We've tried hard to get these manufacturers to make these friedship capable guns at a price a guy like me can afford. Please don't bad mouth them till they throw there hands up and just quit trying. Hope I haven't upset anyone but come on guys there trying.
 
I believe if you want to win at long range it's been proven you better shoot a bestill a knight or a paramount. And if you want a knight to do it your Gonna put money in it. Like I did with Jeff fisk customizing it. Wich made it cost more than the paramount. Oh I forgot a hankins would hang in there r a Arrowhead. Brakebill proved to me its the rifle. He couldn't win with knight. I'd put my knight up against those guns and figure it would hang in there. But again it's not knight now. It's a Bestill custom job. Once again I'd like to say it isn't my intention to upset anyone just couldn't help replying since I'm so happy with my guns now. For less than 2000 dollars I think there a steal. Lol. If there not your thing just don't buy one. This stuff is expensive and if you want to play the longrange inline game u gotta pay to play lol.
 
I believe if you want to win at long range it's been proven you better shoot a bestill a knight or a paramount. And if you want a knight to do it you’re Gonna put money in it. Like I did with Jeff fisk customizing it. Wich made it cost more than the paramount. Oh I forgot a hankins would hang in there r an Arrowhead. Brakebill proved to me its the rifle. He couldn't win with knight. I'd put my knight up against those guns and figure it would hang in there. But again it's not knight now. It's a Bestill custom job. Once again I'd like to say it isn't my intention to upset anyone just couldn't help replying since I'm so happy with my guns now. For less than 2000 dollars I think they’re a steal. Lol. If they’re not your thing just don't buy one. This stuff is expensive and if you want to play the longrange inline game u gotta pay to play lol.
Sounds as if you’re involved in a narrow venue shooting sports competition where expensive specialized equipment is mandatory to play the game…and the $1920 CVA Paramount is considered an entry level piece of the equipment…

Most on this forum are aware of expensive custom made inline rifles with range and accuracy capabilities beyond those guns available at our local sporting goods stores.

But most of us want solid value for our money in terms of accuracy, ease of use, durability and aesthetics.

Most gun manufacturers strive to sell the ACCURACY as a built in feature of every gun they make…CVA seems to think real ACCURACY is something the customer should pay 4 times the going rate to have when it is something that should come standard on their $400 or $500 gun…or maybe their $1920 gun is truly worth only $500.
 
Lol. If all you want is transportation don't buy a Ferrari. Plenty of cva cheap guns out there. I've got some. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Toyota corolla is a caddy. Seems you got your shorts tugged by what I've said. Never meant to. Manufacturer’s read this stuff and if they could build a inline bolt gun for 500yds dollars capable of what that paramount does they'd be doing it. And laughing all the way to the bank. It all comes down to what's important to u as a individual. Buy what you want just don't put down what we want. These guns were never intended to be what your looking for. They're basically bench target longrange rifles. And I doubt you'd find many center fires that fit that description for 4 r 5 hundred bucks. If all you want is a 700 remington used for 500. Then buy it. Don't complain about the price of a 40x. There are all kinds of inexpensive r cheap guns. Muzzleloaders included. That doesn't make the pricey ones not worth it. A 700 remington will not shoot with a heavy barreled 40x. Nor will a 500 dollar Muzzleloader shoot with a cva r knight longrange rifle. In the world we live in today with the inflation we have I feel lucky to have such a wide selection of Muzzleloaders to choose from. Your comparing apples to oranges lol. Yes there both fruit. But there sure as hec not the same. All bad mouthing products does is cause the manufacturer to quit making them. All I'm asking is please don't do that. And not to get upset because some of us find value where u do not. Personally I think theres something to be said for the way a caddy makes u feel. R the way the girls looked at me on my motorcycle when I was young. Sure I could bought a Honda. But dude that Harley was cool! Take a breath smell the roses and enjoy life the way u like. So now I'm probably gonna get pounced on lol. But that's OK to. God bless us all.
 
Lol. If all you want is transportation don't buy a Ferrari. Plenty of cva cheap guns out there. I've got some. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Toyota corolla is a caddy. Seems you got your shorts tugged by what I've said. Never meant to. Manufacturer’s read this stuff and if they could build an inline bolt gun for 500yds dollars capable of what that paramount does they'd be doing it. And laughing all the way to the bank. It all comes down to what's important to u as an individual. Buy what you want just don't put down what we want. These guns were never intended to be what you’re looking for. They're basically bench target longrange rifles. And I doubt you'd find many center fires that fit that description for 4 r 5 hundred bucks. If all you want is a 700 remington used for 500. Then buy it. Don't complain about the price of a 40x. There are all kinds of inexpensive r cheap guns. Muzzleloaders included. That doesn't make the pricey ones not worth it. A 700 remington will not shoot with a heavy barreled 40x. Nor will a 500 dollar Muzzleloader shoot with a cva r knight longrange rifle. In the world we live in today with the inflation we have I feel lucky to have such a wide selection of Muzzleloaders to choose from. Your comparing apples to oranges lol. Yes there both fruit. But there sure as hec not the same. All bad mouthing products does is cause the manufacturer to quit making them. All I'm asking is please don't do that. And not to get upset because some of us find value where u do not. Personally I think theres something to be said for the way a caddy makes u feel. R the way the girls looked at me on my motorcycle when I was young. Sure I could bought a Honda. But dude that Harley was cool! Take a breath smell the roses and enjoy life the way u like. So now I'm probably gonna get pounced on lol. But that's OK to. God bless us all.
You’re a pretty humorous guy…coupla things… my shorts aren’t tugged at all and I’ll take that Toyota Corolla every time over that overpriced Caddy…(I drive a 4Runner and a Tacoma, makes me feel smart, a Corolla would be a welcomed addition)

I sure wondered who would spend his $1920 dollars on a $500 gun…now I know.

May God bless you, your roses, your Caddy, your Harley and your Paramount bench target longrange rifle.
 
I think your woodsman was a great buy! And thanks for the update on Barry B. Knight makes fine rifles own them like them. Wonder if Barry had a straight factory knight r if someone had there fingers in it. Please let me know 52 big bore. I stand corrected on that. Thank you for making me even smarter lol. Good to know stuff. To get my mountaineer to do what I wanted and shoot like I wanted required a trip to mister fisk. I think Doug swartz made a trip r two there also. Might be wrong about that , seems he pulled his hair out with a 500 lol. Anyway after what I put in the knight I'd say the paramount was a steel. I've never had the problems with my paramount that I've read others have. Maybe I just got a good one. Only problem was that bullet designed for it. Shoulda made it bigger. R just did what knight did and let fury deal with the bullet making. I'm sure he'd take the business. Why powerbelt doesn't just make a .453 ish bullet that can be sized r just used as is. Is a great mystery to me. A .453 with that heavy powder charge should be ok for most bores I would think. Anyway I can only speak for my self. I love my knight. But if I had it to do over I'd bought the paramount first. As mine has been wonderful. And I'd spent the money I paid for the mountaineer and bestill work on a perrigrine 40 cal. Wich will probably be my next rifle hopefully. Thanks for replies and thanks for the brotherly love patched. I wish u happiness and prosperity. I hope you enjoy whatever you spend your money on. Lord knows I'm gonna cause I got some great stuff! Wasn't cheap but man it's cool and works great for as far as most people can shoot. I hear it's 1000 yards now. Atleast I think that's what encore was shooting. Man I envy him. One cool guy. Hope his health improves. We will lose a great muzzleloader shooter one day when he is gone. He is a world of knowledge and great to correspond with. So is Jeff fisk and the rest of them. Hankins boys and followers r really cool down to earth people too. After all isn't this a longrange muzzleloader forum? We more people like them if longrange is going to survive.
 
This all makes me think my $1100 Woodman Arms Patriot, smokeless capable, .45 with its Brux barrel was a freaking bargain basement steal of a deal 😎
I checked the Woodman Patriot out…. I’d pay $1100 for that gun…unique, quality design and a Brux barrel coupled with a live human named Woodman standing behind his product…value for your dollar right there….
 
I appreciate the comments,, still a big fan of the Paramount mine no longer has the factory barrel it wears a number 17 brux now,, it shoots everything I put in it and no more bullet gymnastics. I agree that the barrel dimensions work much better with a sabot or Fury .453 etc, I chose to replace my barrel because even 453 bullet was loose and I had a very uneven bore. My rifle with the factory recommended bullets would shoot an inch all day long and yes it would shoot a sabot load well,, but I had no desire for a heavy Target type rifle that would only shoot a sabot, or the blue spaceship ,my conversation with Factory reps did not go well they told me straight up that the bores were designed to shoot their bullets and engineered for that purpose. I still see the Paramount platform and rifle is having so much potential,and I realize many professional Muzzleloader shooters have found ways to get around the bore issues,,, I can't help but ask this question to those of you who have paramounts that do shoot well and you're happy with them wouldn't you rather have a bore in your rifle that was straight up 450-458 and have an enormous selection of bullets to shoot wouldn't you rather have a higher-end nice rifle with a great trigger and a stock that wasn't Limited? I hope CVA takes a second look at the bores,, I'm a big fan in a rifle of having choices not being told here's your gun here's your bullet. Those of us that know all the tricks to make an uneven bore shoot or an oversized shoot,, what would you do if you bought that rifle and you didn't know all those tricks you would just shoot the blue spaceship and I think that was the business philosophy behind the Paramount and I'm not necessarily being critical of that they're in the business to sell bullets. I love my rebuilt Woodman Paramount!
 
Mr Smokepole: Would you be willing to share the precise load you use for your best accuracy in your Paramount? Which bullet and its size, sabot, powder, etc. I too have a Paramount with a poor quality barrel. My Fury bullets feel like they free fall the last 2-3 inches. I prefer the bonded Fury 265 STB, made at .453 and sized for uniformity. I'd prefer not to hunt with the powerboat ELR. I believe they're a varmint bullet or a paper target bullet, not a bone crusher.
 
Had I been able to buy a .451 bore I'd of done it. .450 would of been ok. For my taste in a pure land rider I'd like a shallower Grove barrel like a rock creek. Just my taste. And yep it would be a fine rifle. Cva choose to go with a sabot barrel on purpose. At least that's what the kid I talk to on the phone made clear to me. Powerbelts r supposed to be designed to inter change with sabots according to him and they realized lots of people shoot a box of saboted pistol bullet. It was all about appealing to the masses. If I understood him wrong my apology. They new the rifle wouldn't shoot big lead wich is what I was trying to make it do. I'm sold on it just won't. Atleast not unless u patch them. And now it's a sabot lol. If I was to pick a load to tell u is easy to get accuracy with it would be a light blue harvester sabot and a .402 r 401 fury rifle bullet and 130 grains by volume. If u have sabot trouble lesson your charge. 240 grain fury 402 I bleave for smokeless gun. Not shown on muzzleloader section. U could play with sizing it if u want. A 225 r star tip in same sabot shoots light out for most deer hunting thats a .40 also. The 265 with a knurl to 454 in I think the stb then size it to your liking is a lights out deer load for most people and it's a pure land rider no sabot. U can really honk it. The blue space ships require a full house load to get that undersized bullet to bump up enough for good results in my opinion. For whatever that's worth. I mean hit the max charge then back of to see if it shoots better. And throw the damn muzzle brake on it in your shooting cart. My gun hates them. Cva figured that people wanted velocity so the undersized bullet would load like a dream and bump up enough. Then u could still shoot sabots also. It bite them in the ass lol. Just my 2.cents. anyway u figure that rifle out and it will shoot half inch r smaller groups at 100. Atleast mine does. Also they figured a fouling shot was ok since it's mostly a target gun and blackhorn is supposed to be non corrosive. Yeah right. Wrong! I hate hunting with dirty barrels. Just me. And I have a gun with corrosive damage from believing that crap. Left it dirty in high humidity big mistake. Rained all season and tents collect lots of moisture with stoves on. Anyway clean your gun. The twist will handle most fury bullets if they r knurled to 454 then sized. Hec u might get it to load them united with a spin jag.
 

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