CVA Paramount Pro V2…Does Ferrari make these?

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Smokepole61

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If your rifles r such pieces of junk send them back. I sent a accura back gave me full refund. They stood by it. Bought it from muzzleloader.com good people. Very religious. There is atleast 2 very accurate paramount rifles. The one I have and the one Barry won friendship with. My rifle has a very nice bore. It's just a sabot barrel. Just like a mountaineer I have in .45. That knight has just as loose a barrel. The paramount is a slightly bigger but not enough to say it's really worse. I mean they're both 453ish. You can load same sized bullet if you just want to push harder. I size to the right fit for each. You guys r gonna mess around and there gonna stop making these .45 and .40 bolt guns. Just like we killed the .45 in the past and made the .50 king. Well it ain't king anymore. Your gonna find out in a few years that they just went back to what people bought and where fine with. Go ahead make out like I'm full of crap. I got think skin. And I've seen 50 years of marketing. If you hate cva so bad just don't buy them. I bet most of the guns out there have loose bores if they are mass production guns. Hec it's always been that way. It why no one wanted to make sabotless rifles. But custom gun makers. Trying to get a company to listen to what u want and like is one thing. Some of you guys just take it to far. Cut the damn things up with a shop saw and mail it to them. That will make a statement they can't miss. Stick a letter in with it. There obviously no good to you as they r . So just let em know your never buying another cva product wash your hands of them put on your boots and go by a woodsman r a traditions r t/c used. I've bought some very expensive things that didn't work out. And have to ex wives that wanted to bleed me dry. They're are alot have happy cva buyers. Just like there's unhappy night buyers. Yous just don't seem to get what lm trying to say. You just want to lash out at a company cause you think they screwed you. There not out to do that. No long term money in it. And cva is wanting to stay in business in a economy that sucks. So send the hate mail. This old man has been around the block. I've seen many products that could of been great just shit canned because of this stuff. So now throw me off of here and have a good laugh. I doubt many of you really know what it is to be screwed in a big money venture. These gun companies do. Remington went bankrupt. They're trying and I hope they keep it up.
 
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...........................................Cut the damn things up with a shop saw and mail it to them. That will make a statement they can't miss. Stick a letter in with it.....................
I helped a guy with a Traditions Vortec rifle. First thing was to get rid of the Banner scope that lasted 4 rounds. He fixed that issue.

However, he had a ton of issues with the rifle and Traditions more or less told him to kiss their ask.

He took the rifle into the shop and did exactly that. He cut it up into small pieces and mailed it back to Traditions. ;)
 
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I helped a guy with a Traditions Vortec rifle. First thing was to get rid of the Banner scope that lasted 4 rounds. He fixed that issue.

However, he had a ton of issues with the rifle and Traditions more or less told him to kiss their ask.

He took the rifle into the shop and did exactly that. He cut it up into small pieces and mailed it back to Traditions. ;)
That's an awesome statement for sure, if a bit pricey !
 

Steelheader323

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I helped a guy with a Traditions Vortec rifle. First thing was to get rid of the Banner scope that lasted 4 rounds. He fixed that issue.

However, he had a ton of issues with the rifle and Traditions more or less told him to kiss their ask.

He took the rifle into the shop and did exactly that. He cut it up into small pieces and mailed it back to Traditions. ;)
I honestly do not see traditions as a brand lasting much longer but I could be wrong..the average guy hitting the woods for a week with a muzzleloader typically doesn’t care about customer services or quality
 

Patched

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What skin do you have in this game? Nobody fights this hard without something to gain. Sabot barrel? Are you kidding me? Where in the centerfire world do you see all this overbore/misbored bullshit? No where! What kind of sycophant are you anyway? I've been listening to you for two days now and I've had enough. You're full of shit. I've been in this firearms game for over 50 years myself and I've NEVER seen the kind of horseshit that going on with these CVA guns. Ridiculous sums of money for "factory custom" guns that won't shoot anything but proprietary ammunition and even that barely MOA? And you don't even support this forum! CVA made the Paramount with an agenda that they never bothered to share with the consumer. All they told us was all they tested the rifle with was X amount of BH209 and their ELR bullets. They never bothered to tell us that by engineering them that way they were limiting the consumer to their ammo without jumping through a bunch of hoops. I have built benchrest grade ammo for 300 meter and 1000 yard competition by hand using arbor presses and every process known to produce ammo to the highest standard for custom guns but I knew what I was getting into off the rip. CVA committed lies of omission to me and everyone like me and I'm pissed off about it. And then you come on here with your diversionary tactics and basically tell us it our fault for not know how to deal with what we bought. Screw you pal. I'm not getting dressed down by some company shill trying to make this all sound like this all is normal. These are production muzzleloaders...not some sort of custom job built on a wildcat cartridge. You're full of crap. I'm done listening to you.
The whole reason I started this thread was to discuss and maybe call out CVA for several reasons regarding their Paramount product…and I wanted to see if others had similar thoughts or concerns.

Apparently you, myself and a few others here with 50 plus years experience in precision shooting endeavors see the Paramount product for what it is…an overpriced proprietary shooting system…

CVA did the exact same trick in 40 caliber but apparently dropped it because of state hunting caliber requirements that severely limited their market…that’d be my guess.

I won’t support that genre of marketing technique…smokepole61 does, good for him.

Note also CVA could easily offer 1:24 twist barrels or even faster twists on all their muzzleloaders making them capable of shooting their proprietary ”space ship” bullet…correct me if I’m wrong, but CVA uses 1:28 twist except the Paramounts…again $1920 is better spent on another brand.
 
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The whole reason I started this thread was to discuss and maybe call out CVA for several reasons regarding their Paramount product…and I wanted to see if others had similar thoughts or concerns.

Apparently you, myself and a few others here with 50 plus years experience in precision shooting endeavors see the Paramount product for what it is…an overpriced proprietary shooting system…

CVA did the exact same trick in 40 caliber but apparently dropped it because of state hunting caliber requirements that severely limited their market…that’d be my guess.

I won’t support that genre of marketing technique…smokepole61 does, good for him.

Note also CVA could easily offer 1:24 twist barrels or even faster twists on all their muzzleloaders making them capable of shooting their proprietary ”space ship” bullet…correct me if I’m wrong, but CVA uses 1:28 twist except the Paramounts…again $1920 is better spent on another brand.
I couldn't possibly agree more with you sir. I thank you for starting this thread. At the end of the day my allegiance will always be with the consumer...i.e. the little guy. So few people have decades of experience in the shooting sports and my cynical nature tells me most neophyte muzzleloader customers aren't informed. They rely on marketing not knowing that to one degree or another regardless of the brand, they're being lied to. I don't give a damn what CVA or any other gun maker does...just be honest about what you're doing. But the tack CVA took with the ELR targeted rifles and the secretive way they went about it gripes my ass. Say what you're about and what you're doing and let the consumer make an educated decision. There is NO substitute for integrity.
 

Smokepole61

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No muzzleloader designed to shoot sabots will shoot copper jackets worth a shit! It's why we knurl them up. It's why we have oversized bores. That and a lack of industry standards for muzzleloaders. We have Sammi specs. For center fire. And industry standards across the board for center fires. Nothing for muzzleloaders. We Don't even proof them in America. It's why we buy custom barrel jobs also. Also you won't find a custom gun designed for today's copper jackets that u could shoot a sabot in and have good full power accuracy. R a factory gun like the new perrigrine. Partly because the twist is to fast. But Johnston does it with a sabot and pelts. Mostly it's cause the bore on land rider custom rifles is to tight for sabots. Except the johnston thats ken johnston i beleave. He made a remington clone that sold well. People didn't like the plug set up r that your only suposed to use pyrodex pellets. In the beginning it was a real mess to find rifles that loaded easy and shot well. I'm talking inlines here. It seemed sabots were a good way to make up for all the different barrel sizes. Just a piece of plastic and and undersized bullet. The plastic will conform to the bore and fill the lands and make up for the difference in bore tolerances.And shoot flatter since it's lighter. Well they loaded like crap. So things started changing. A the oversized bore was a answer to most of it. People that shoot sabots love them since they load easy. Knight and a whole bunch of others use the same idea
Geez thought u was smart lol.
 
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No muzzleloader designed to shoot sabots will shoot copper jackets worth a shit! It's why we knurl them up. It's why we have oversized bores. That and a lack of industry standards for muzzleloaders. We have Sammi specs. For center fire. And industry standards across the board for center fires. Nothing for muzzleloaders. We Don't even proof them in America. It's why we buy custom barrel jobs also. Also you won't find a custom gun designed for today's copper jackets that u could shoot a sabot in and have good full power accuracy. R a factory gun like the new perrigrine. Partly because the twist is to fast. But Johnston does it with a sabot and pelts. Mostly it's cause the bore on land rider custom rifles is to tight for sabots. Except the johnston thats ken johnston i beleave. He made a remington clone that sold well. People didn't like the plug set up r that your only suposed to use pyrodex pellets. In the beginning it was a real mess to find rifles that loaded easy and shot well. I'm talking inlines here. It seemed sabots were a good way to make up for all the different barrel sizes. Just a piece of plastic and and undersized bullet. The plastic will conform to the bore and fill the lands and make up for the difference in bore tolerances.And shoot flatter since it's lighter. Well they loaded like crap. So things started changing. A the oversized bore was a answer to most of it. People that shoot sabots love them since they load easy. Knight and a whole bunch of others use the same idea
Geez thought u was smart lol.
Good thing Doc White or Tony Knight weren't as "smart" as you seem to think you are or their rifle bores would have been all over the place as these ELR designed CVAs are. You seem to be conveniently missing the point of why I'm pissed at CVA and ipso facto guys like you that carry the water for them. For years if you bought a 50 caliber it was just that. My Accura V2 Plains Rifle is a excellent example of that. Dead nuts on 50 caliber. I can smooth sized 320gr Fury's down to fit perfectly or use any kind of sabot/bullet combination I choose. My choice. Same with every other modern inline I've had my hands on in the last 25 years...CVA, Knight, TC, Traditions, White, Gonic..you name it. Then comes these new CVAs. I don't care so much that they did what they did. What I care about is they did what they did and didn't bother to tell anyone about it. I bought my Paramount expecting it to be made to the same standards as my Plains Rifle and it wasn't. .4535 when it should never have been any bigger than .451. They could have designed those ELR bullets to be whatever size they wanted them to be. In fact the 50 caliber ELR shoots great out of my Plains Rifle. They didn't need to make the Paramount overbored to shoot ELRs. They overbored them so other companies bullets wouldn't fit deliberately trying to limit us to their ELRs and that is bullshit. You might be okay when big business makes decisions that deprive me of my right to choose for myself what I do with something I paid good money for but I can assure you I'm not okay with it. CVA lied...lies of omission. Then you want to come on here and make excuses for them. Fine. You're no better than they are. You sir and I are done.
 

MrTom

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Great summation Pathfinder! I'd considered a Paramount until reports began showing up here of how miserable the barrels were and finally realizing CVA made those guns intentionally. I have several CVA rifles and a couple of the Optima pistols, all are older than the LR and MX guns and have zero barrel issues.
This right here "They overbored them so other companies bullets wouldn't fit deliberately trying to limit us to their ELRs" is spot on as far as I am concerned.
 

GM54-120

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A sabot barrel is always a larger size than most conventional calibers
Odd, all 3 of mine are .450-.4508 and ive never owned one over .452. Considering a 45 1-20 ML barrel is just a 45-70 barrel i find that statement to be strange.

No muzzleloader designed to shoot sabots will shoot copper jackets worth a shit!

Really?...sounds like you got some real junkers if thats the case. And how exactly do you design a barrel to shoot sabots? Does having 8 lands and .450 lands some how magically make it shoot one and not the other?

We all know how large the CVA 45 bores have been lately and getting a .454 loaded OD HLB sabot to shoot in a .453 land barrel aint happening without a larger bullet in the sabot. Been there and done that. You got 2 OD options in 45cal sabots for 40cal bullets and neither one measures over .456 loaded.
:roll:
 

white eagle

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Having had my eye on a 40 cal Paramount and getting the run around from CVA about their availability I went with the Knight Peregrine and I am glad I did
Not only for the performance I am getting out of it but by the sounds of it I never would have been happy with the tolerances of the CVA and their craftsmanship, if they would have designed it the same as their other rifles with so many issues
 

a cloud of smoke

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just a question, not related to the paramount..but for the cva break barrels..how many have issues with the trigger not setting and or the trigger getting locked with a loaded gun and not being able to fire it?..I have watched a bunch of youtube videos about it and there seems to be ALOT of comments posted by people having the same issue..I just received a cva accura lr-x 30 inch barrel and had issue when assembled, it came with the bh209 breech plug installed, I never tried the trigger with that breech plug and put in the plug for pellets as thats what im starting with, the trigger would not set...open the breech and it set, remove the plug and close the breech and it set, put that plug back in and it would not set..put in the bh209 breech plug and trigger set no problem, after taking the gun apart and getting a light and magnifying glasses on, I could see the surface where the firing pin comes through( not the small circle around the pin, but lower down) had a small burr of metal at the bottom, I packed the action with a small cloth and filed the burr away, put back the pellet breech plug and no more problem, so the bh209 plug must be a hair smaller than the other plug, but that burr should have been cleaned in the factory, not the end consumer, and to add injury to insult, midway now has them almost $90 bucks cheaper...( I called midway they wouldnt do anything even though I received the gun a few days before they dropped the price, now I wonder if they dropped the price since hunting season is over or they want to get rid of problem guns?)
I havent had a chance to fire it yet, that will be next week, I checked the bore and it is nice and shiny with no burrs and looks good...ill see how it shoots and if there are any further issues with the trigger not setting ....

 

a cloud of smoke

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is it too soon to send it back for a refund ?
if the gun shoots good and has no issues, Id like to keep it, A friend has one he bought a year or 2 ago and loves it, the hassle to send it back and buy another for the price difference isnt worth it, and then I risk getting something worse..LOL....I have sent other defective stuff back to midway with no problems..Ill know in a week if it shoots well or it doesnt, then if there are issues its going back for a refund...overall so far I like the gun and feel..so im hoping all goes well..
ok update, I just got off the phone with midway, they wont take it back at this time and after shooting if it had issues they would have me contact cva direct..not the best response, they say its a non returnable item to them..so hopefully its a mute point and the gun works with no issues..
 
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So, If the pre-covid Bergara barrels in the 45 Paramount were good barrels, and the barrels (like mine) made while covid was devastating Spain are crap, are there any reports of newer, more recently made Paramount barrels being good again?
I don't know this has anything to do with COVID-19... personally I believe it to be a coincidence. The line in the sand wasn't COVID...it was the ELR specific rifles which just so happened to come to market at the same time as COVID did. COVID gets blamed for a lot of things that don't deserve it. Poor engineering doesn't have anything to do with a disease...anymore than a poor design has in common with a shitty work ethic. Two bad situations that of linked together create a shitty outcome.
 

ram2

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just a question, not related to the paramount..but for the cva break barrels..how many have issues with the trigger not setting and or the trigger getting locked with a loaded gun and not being able to fire it?..I have watched a bunch of youtube videos about it and there seems to be ALOT of comments posted by people having the same issue.

I have a CVA Wolf that got jammed open (gun was unloaded) with the hammer in the cocked position. The gun would not snap shut and lock in position. I had to take a flat blade screwdriver and play around with the internal mechanism in the breeching area in order to finally get the breech closed.
 
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i did not know powerbelts were that new . thanks
Power belts aren't new or weren't new..since we're still discussing an issue that 3 years old if not more...it's the ELR versions of the Power Belt line that are in question here...
40 cal, 45 cal and 50cal and even more specifically the rifles designed to shoot them.and nothing but them. Something that has never been attempted in modern firearms history.
 
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