CVA Paramount Update

[ihookem]

I can hardly believe they allow those straight wall cartridges for muzzleloader season. I hope it doesnt happen in Wisconsin.

 

[ram2]

If you're near Lansing and in the CWD management zone, both the 450 Bushmaster and 350 Legend are legal firearms during the muzzleloader season.

Muzzleloading Deer Seasons An individual hunting deer with a muzzleloading firearm during the muzzleloading deer season shall only possess or carry afield, or take a deer with a crossbow, muzzleloading rifle, muzzleloading shotgun, or black-powder pistol, loaded with black-powder or a commercially manufactured black-powder substitute. (Exception: in the CWD Management Zone and Core CWD Area muzzleloader season is open to all legal firearms...

I am not in the CWD zone.

 

[45-70]

It's been a lot of years since I've been to a NMLRA shoot. More than 30, in fact. I expect things have changed a lot since the last time I attended one.

not a whole lot , the basics still are there, of course . helps when you only live 10 miles from there

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I am not in the CWD zone.

I'm hunting just south of lansing near stockbridge, in a cwd zone. We can use almost anything there. I'm still sticking with the ML tho.

 

[Busta]

I can hardly believe they allow those straight wall cartridges for muzzleloader season. I hope it doesnt happen in Wisconsin.

I hunt NW of Lansing in the CWD Core Area, and like Uncle Ted says, it's a..........





.......... Free For All.

Sorry, grabbed the wrong live performance. Any legal firearm is allowed in our Muzzleloader Season.

 

[Ninering62]

Well Canada might have a problem with a million muzzleloading enthusiasts coming across the border? Blackhorn 209 is made by General Dynamics in Quebec and shipped in drums to Western Powders in Montana. It's put in smaller retail containers in Miles City.

Until Hodgdon gets their new Triple Ei8ht or another worthy challenger on the market, I don't see Blackhorn going down anytime soon. Western has a wholesale price, it's the retailers that are raping people. Just look at Cabela's since Bass Pro bought them, they are charging $49. You know they are buying it by the truckload. Mom and Pops can't buy in that kind of volume, and incur the large HazMat charges on their smaller volume, which they have no choice to include in the retail price.

You might be able to trade a couple rolls of toilet paper for a jug of Blackhorn right now.

View attachment 8050

Blackhorn is like crack cocaine for the muzzleloader once you start using that you got to have it all right I'll calm down friends, I have strong feelings about this topic y'all forgive me

I stand right beside ya on this. And a lot of other stuff too

 

[Ninering62]

I hunt NW of Lansing in the CWD Core Area, and like Uncle Ted says...........

That was my very first rock n roll album I ever bought. I was either in 8th or 9th grade when it was released. My 2nd album ever was Double live Gonzo. The inside of the cover got used lots for destem & deseed the dirtweed we got in the mid 70's I'd be all about Ted $ Prez

 

[Ninering62]

When you look at the entire outdoor sporting goods industry, from archery to firearms to inland boating to ocean boating to fishing in all of its forms to bicycling to backpacking to climbing, and so on and so on and so on; the entirety of muzzleloading, from the most traditional handgonne/wheelock to the most radical smokeless muzzleloader (and ALL of the supporting elements that make M-L work) only comprises approximately 1/1000th of 1% of the revenue for the industry.

That's why the BIG BOYS don't wanna be bothered. They just don't see the profits in it. Virtually none of them are willing to look at ANY industry with the type of forward looking attitude that the Asian companies approach business with. And, certainly NOT MUZZLELOADING!!!!

It's guys like Jim Kibler that got sick and tired of the parts that he was getting from foundries being not good enough for his kits.

To the point that he has invested in 2 CNC machines so that he can fabricate everything on his flintlock rifle kits except for the frizzen, the cock, and the top jaw of the locks.

In the last year he has brought to market 2 separate flintlocks that don't just look good. The internals, as well as the externals are not just historically correct, the geometries are right. And they use construction and assembly techniques like the best of the European locks from the past did.

The first lock was a round-faced English styled flintlock that went on his Early Colonial Rifle Kit. Replacing a Jim Chambers lock of similar shape and style. The latest lock, ready to go in his Mountain Rifle kits in the next week, or so, is a Late Ketland style export flintlock with a semi-waterproof pan. Locks like these were exported from England by the tens of thousands in wooden kegs during the first 2 decades of the 19th Century.

In several months, 3-4, he will be bringing to market a separate version of the Ketland lock that will have a high tech (19th Century) waterproof pan and frizzen on it.

Current cost of all 3 locks? An amazing $235.00. Expect the waterproof pan version to cost a little more.

Another man, Chris Laubach, is bringing to market a CNC machined version of a 1740-1760 German flintlock with a curved lockplate, and FORGED SPRINGS. Approximate cost $345.00

These two men, and Jim's wife Katherine, are the best thing to happen to traditional muzzleloading in decades.

Mr. Kibler's made no bones about the troubles he's had with getting foundries to turn out acceptable work. Now that he controls virtually the entire production process, with the exception of the barrel, breech plug, and three cast parts, he can guarantee his quality, and reduce his problems.

His barrels come from Rice Muzzleloading Barrels. The breech plugs are CNC machined by Quality Tool & Machine Co., and installed by Rice.

Jim Kibler has let it be known that he will eventually turn his talents to percussion locks, as well as left-hand locks.

This is one man trying to make a difference where he has his true loves. The flintlock longrifle. If he can do as much as he has with the limited funds at his disposal, then what should a company like Pedersoli be able to accomplish?

So many of Pedersoli' s guns that are not direct copies of historical firearms, look down right amateurish and hokie to me. It's like they never bothered to actually put their hands on a specimen of the type of gun that they are trying to emulate. Like they made it from a picture.

A company with their resources ought to be able to produce guns with locks at least as good as the ones Jim Kibler and Chris Laubach are making. Why they don't is a total mystery to me.

European barrels are first rate. So why are their breech plugs, powder drums, locks, touch hole liners, etc done so poorly, so often? Not all of the time, but a lot of the time?

I hope the heck I don't have all that headache with the older Pedersoli 12ga 30"DBL Barrel shotgun I just bought off GunBroker. It;s my 1st BP shotgun & I thought 650.00 TMS w/new soft case in decent condition was a decent deal. It ( the European stock or LOP ) sure the heck aint made for my body, my cheek weld is not pleasant or comfortable to shoot. I have to have the stock way up on my cheek instead of where a normal cheek position. And after firing 8 shots @30yds then 25yds, unless an Osceola gobbler the size of a panel truck comes up on the back porch I stand little chance of doing anything to him but hurt his ears & give him smoke inhalation. I have lots to learn and am enjoying the process of goin old school again. I may try to find another BP 12ga dbl barrel from another maker with a more suitable form for my body. trying to find an O/U BP 12ga was unsuccessful & Pedersoli's seemed to be easy to find. Hoping to get it to pattern acceptable before spring season opens here. Kind regards

 

[Ninering62]

Well Canada might have a problem with a million muzzleloading enthusiasts coming across the border? Blackhorn 209 is made by General Dynamics in Quebec and shipped in drums to Western Powders in Montana. It's put in smaller retail containers in Miles City.

Until Hodgdon gets their new Triple Ei8ht or another worthy challenger on the market, I don't see Blackhorn going down anytime soon. Western has a wholesale price, it's the retailers that are raping people. Just look at Cabela's since Bass Pro bought them, they are charging $49. You know they are buying it by the truckload. Mom and Pops can't buy in that kind of volume, and incur the large HazMat charges on their smaller volume, which they have no choice to include in the retail price.

You might be able to trade a couple rolls of toilet paper for a jug of Blackhorn right now.

View attachment 8050

But its " Canada " Busta, it ain't like theres gonna be a fight LOL
Just in jest, never disrespectful or malicious
I loved the post

 

[Busta]

But its " Canada " Busta, it ain't like theres gonna be a fight LOL
Just in jest, never disrespectful or malicious
I loved the post

It's also Quebec, which is another world in another world. Oui, oui!

 

[Muley Hunter]

Busta........Did you fly the Hog? I fly it in a simulation (DCS). I love that plane.

 

[Doccbst1]

That was my very first rock n roll album I ever bought. I was either in 8th or 9th grade when it was released. My 2nd album ever was Double live Gonzo. The inside of the cover got used lots for destem & deseed the dirtweed we got in the mid 70's I'd be all about Ted $ Prez

I met the Nuge on a plane, knew they were a band just not which one. When we got in the Limo/bus got to talk to Ted, they were doing a concert nearby, told him I liked his jam just knew his records but never saw him in concert. We talked bow hunting after that. Teds a good guy, super nice to me, I was 19yrs old.

 

[Ninering62]

I met the Nuge on a plane, knew they were a band just not which one. When we got in the Limo/bus got to talk to Ted, they were doing a concert nearby, told him I liked his jam just knew his records but never saw him in concert. We talked bow hunting after that. Teds a good guy, super nice to me, I was 19yrs old.

Very cool, great story thanks

 

[Doccbst1]

The Paramount is $800 right now, and had been if you shop around. You can get the 209 primer breech plug for about $20, or go with Lukes Gen II for whatever it is now.

Busted, I did all 3 got the Paramount down to $720 from CVA. Gotta love all the accessories that come with. Waiting for Gen 2, scope and mounts. CVA must think we're gorilla's this things a beast. Good thing I'm a big boy and my hunts a short walk.

 

[Sideshow]

I hope the heck I don't have all that headache with the older Pedersoli 12ga 30"DBL Barrel shotgun I just bought off GunBroker. It;s my 1st BP shotgun & I thought 650.00 TMS w/new soft case in decent condition was a decent deal. It ( the European stock or LOP ) sure the heck aint made for my body, my cheek weld is not pleasant or comfortable to shoot. I have to have the stock way up on my cheek instead of where a normal cheek position. And after firing 8 shots @30yds then 25yds, unless an Osceola gobbler the size of a panel truck comes up on the back porch I stand little chance of doing anything to him but hurt his ears & give him smoke inhalation. I have lots to learn and am enjoying the process of goin old school again. I may try to find another BP 12ga dbl barrel from another maker with a more suitable form for my body. trying to find an O/U BP 12ga was unsuccessful & Pedersoli's seemed to be easy to find. Hoping to get it to pattern acceptable before spring season opens here. Kind regards

You need to find a stock-fitter . Kinda hard to locate at times not far away . Should make a tremendous difference in your ability to hit what you see . Like throwing a baseball . ALL SHOTGUNS need this . Its an intimate weapon . Get it fitted " for you" . Ya wont be sorry !!!

Try trap and skeet ranges to locate nearby talent if its around . Youll find them........ OR -- Weinig Gunstocks for reccomendations/appointments
This can be expensive if your not carefull . But youll also NEVER shoot better !!! SHOP !!!!

 

[Ninering62]

Busted, I did all 3 got the Paramount down to $720 from CVA. Gotta love all the accessories that come with. Waiting for Gen 2, scope and mounts. CVA must think we're gorilla's this things a beast. Good thing I'm a big boy and my hunts a short walk.

Wow that's a good price ya got for your Paramount. I paid 852.change to my door back in Nov. There wasn't a better price to be found at that time. They were 945.00-1245.00 then.
I'm a med sized guy but not in good health & I can tell ya that trompin thru the woods to get to where I wanted to hunt with that 12+lb with scope ML on my back wasn't a bit fun in the Fl heat & humidity, draggin my dear out with it on my back sucked abit worse. It had been dark for an hr & I could barely stand by the time I made it out. I like the gun for what it is & what it's worth as an off the rack gun. It's what I could afford too. The rest of my funds went into the Vortex PST gen2 scope, DNZ Gamereaper 1pc mount, havin the barrel threaded & the titanium brake I had made for it timed & installed. I'll have a little under 2k in it done. I did not buy the HIS BP or arrowheads. I'm pleasantly surprised to say that even at Max charges I as of yet have no leak/blowback with the BP & Variflames. I've only been thru 1 can of BH 209 & it's not back from the gunsmith yet, I can't wait to shoot it with the brake on with load thru funnel.
Hope you enjoy you gun without some of the issues that have arisen in them. Plz keep us apprised.

 

[Doccbst1]

Wow that's a good price ya got for your Paramount. I paid 852.change to my door back in Nov. There wasn't a better price to be found at that time. They were 945.00-1245.00 then.
I'm a med sized guy but not in good health & I can tell ya that trompin thru the woods to get to where I wanted to hunt with that 12+lb with scope ML on my back wasn't a bit fun in the Fl heat & humidity, draggin my dear out with it on my back sucked abit worse. It had been dark for an hr & I could barely stand by the time I made it out. I like the gun for what it is & what it's worth as an off the rack gun. It's what I could afford too. The rest of my funds went into the Vortex PST gen2 scope, DNZ Gamereaper 1pc mount, havin the barrel threaded & the titanium brake I had made for it timed & installed. I'll have a little under 2k in it done. I did not buy the HIS BP or arrowheads. I'm pleasantly surprised to say that even at Max charges I as of yet have no leak/blowback with the BP & Variflames. I've only been thru 1 can of BH 209 & it's not back from the gunsmith yet, I can't wait to shoot it with the brake on with load thru funnel.
Hope you enjoy you gun without some of the issues that have arisen in them. Plz keep us apprised.

I used to tromp the mountains, swamps, hills and valleys.
At 63 yrs old I've calmed down some.
I kill most of my deer 50ys-100yds from my truck on the family farm. Usually can drive right up to them to load.
If I'm mountain hunting I always hunt uphill and still close to the truck.
I'm usually solo and carry a rope hoist and winch on the truck. I miss the mile or more tromps in the woods but I've dragged a few out that pushed my limits too. These days I'm after a quick kill and DRT shot, hence the Paramount.
accuracy and proper bullet placement. My last ML buck was walking to me and had to shoot straight in. My TC .50 Impact did it's work at 80yds and he dropped DRT right outside a 20 acre clear-cut / thicket. His big brother hung out 300yds away and the Paramount might be the solution. That's the plan anyway. The 3 bucks pic was last summer and I've seen all of the hunting last season.

 

[Ninering62]

I used to tromp the mountains, swamps, hills and valleys.
At 63 yrs old I've calmed down some.
I kill most of my deer 50ys-100yds from my truck on the family farm. Usually can drive right up to them to load.
If I'm mountain hunting I always hunt uphill and still close to the truck.
I'm usually solo and carry a rope hoist and winch on the truck. I miss the mile or more tromps in the woods but I've dragged a few out that pushed my limits too. These days I'm after a quick kill and DRT shot, hence the Paramount.
accuracy and proper bullet placement. My last ML buck was walking to me and had to shoot straight in. My TC .50 Impact did it's work at 80yds and he dropped DRT right outside a 20 acre clear-cut / thicket. His big brother hung out 300yds away and the Paramount might be the solution. That's the plan anyway. The 3 bucks pic was last summer and I've seen all of the hunting last season.View attachment 8629

Awesome post, nice buck. The Paramount is easily a 300yd ML all day long. The ELR's do great out to those ranges as well. I had a Titanium 1pc 5 port brake only 3oz put on my Paramount. I just got the call yesterday from the gunsmith that its finally done ( only after about 6wks of having it ) but I cant pay for it until 5/1. Watch the Youtube video of Mike Deming from Sportsmans Warehouse ( I've seen him on TV too on one of the hunting/outdoor channels. He is shooting the Paramount with 98gr BH 209 BW & the ELR's out to 730yds & drops em in at 1/2 moa at 600yds. Very cool! Mike's a great guy too & helped me decide on getting a Paramount along with a cpl awesome guys in here.
I use to hunt with a cpl young guys & their dads in Pa & Wva & western Md & they took notice of how much thought I put into where I placed myself with my 26lb orig model Sumit Viper self climber, my rifle, utility belt with 3 pouches full of gear & food, and my canteen, GPS & everything I needed to spend dark to dark hunting if necessary & what I thought I needed for any emergency. I was loaded down & still at times went 1-2 miles into nowhere to hunt deer or black bear. I'd always place myself where theoretically would be the easiest to drag my kill out. I did get a shoulder strap drag & some rope at first. Then I wised up a lil bit & bought the drag harness which was much easier. I use to be healthy & strong enough to just throw the deer over my shoulder & carry it out. NO More. lol I need one of them lil carts with the wheels on it to get my deer out now.

 

[ENCORE50A]

………….. I use to be healthy & strong enough to just throw the deer over my shoulder & carry it out. NO More. lol I need one of them lil carts with the wheels on it to get my deer out now.

 

[bestill]

Awesome post, nice buck. The Paramount is easily a 300yd ML all day long. The ELR's do great out to those ranges as well. I had a Titanium 1pc 5 port brake only 3oz put on my Paramount. I just got the call yesterday from the gunsmith that its finally done ( only after about 6wks of having it ) but I cant pay for it until 5/1. Watch the Youtube video of Mike Deming from Sportsmans Warehouse ( I've seen him on TV too on one of the hunting/outdoor channels. He is shooting the Paramount with 98gr BH 209 BW & the ELR's out to 730yds & drops em in at 1/2 moa at 600yds. Very cool! Mike's a great guy too & helped me decide on getting a Paramount along with a cpl awesome guys in here.
I use to hunt with a cpl young guys & their dads in Pa & Wva & western Md & they took notice of how much thought I put into where I placed myself with my 26lb orig model Sumit Viper self climber, my rifle, utility belt with 3 pouches full of gear & food, and my canteen, GPS & everything I needed to spend dark to dark hunting if necessary & what I thought I needed for any emergency. I was loaded down & still at times went 1-2 miles into nowhere to hunt deer or black bear. I'd always place myself where theoretically would be the easiest to drag my kill out. I did get a shoulder strap drag & some rope at first. Then I wised up a lil bit & bought the drag harness which was much easier. I use to be healthy & strong enough to just throw the deer over my shoulder & carry it out. NO More. lol I need one of them lil carts with the wheels on it to get my deer out now.

That is some impressive shooting.
7 to 10 mph wind will drift bullet 55 to 75 inches appx at that long range shot he definitely called the wind well