CVA Paramount

[rcs9250]

I’m new to this forum today. I own a CVA Paramount rifle. I really like the rifle but am very disappointed in its accuracy so far.
This is my second muzzle loader so I’m not an expert by any means. My first was a TC Triumph. It shot about 1.5” groups at 100 yards. Entirely adequate for Ohio primitive weapon deer season. When I saw the Paramount I sold my TC and ordered a Paramount.
Two weeks ago I took it to the range for the first time. Wiped the bore with a dry patch then loaded and fired a round at fifty yards. First round was an inch high and three quarter inch right from bore sighting. So I completely cleaned bore and fired at 100 yards. I guesstimated a correction for the additional fifty yards. Second shot was an inch high and three quarter inch left. So far so good, I thought. Cleaned the bore again and then did a series of shots, cleaning between each shot. My group of seven shots was about 4.5”.
Not impressive, not happy.
I was using BH 209 and variflame primer adapters with large rifle primers with CVA’s recommended minimum powder charge, weighing each charge with an electronic scale.
A week later I went back with maximum load by weight. Six shots, same procedure, cleaning between shots, group size pretty much the same, 4.5”. Not happy. Good enough I suppose for deer but it should be 1” groups at 100 yards. I’m shooting off bipod first week, sand bag second week.
I searched internet for Paramount owner comments and experiences but found nothing of value, just lame commentaries of how the rifle looked. CVA of course had their videos which showed impressive groups.
So I fire off an email to CVA explaining my disappointment. Today I received a reply from CVA.
CVA recommended a fouling shot before doing any grouping shots. They recommend not cleaning between shots because BH209 burns fairly clean. They said they have gone 8 to 10 shots between cleaning. My TC using Triple 7 had to be cleaned each shot or the sabot would not seat all the way to the pellets. So that’s why I clean between each shot.
Here is what CVA recommended:

With the Paramount, it can be beneficial to fire a fouling shot prior to shooting for groups as typically they do perform best after one fouling shot to get the Blackhorn "burn ring" established.

I suppose that’s fine for a range gun but I explained that it’s not very practical to fire off a load just before heading into the woods to hunt.
I’m very skeptical about firing a round the day before and leaving the fouled rifle without cleaning it. CVA said with a nitrided bore there should not be a corrosion concern. I certainly did not have to do that with my TC.
Does anyone have any advice, experience or recommendations that I should try ? My next trip to the range will be using their recommended fouling method.

Randy

 

[Scotts98rt]

There is a large paramount page in the inline section. Every question that you can think of should be answered there.

 

[rcs9250]

Oh wow. Cool. Thank you.

 

[Steelheader323]

Bh209 is very different than t7 I use both but use bh209 in every rifle I have capable of using it.. you can leave it loaded for days without worry. they were not wrong with the comments, a lot of rifles like to be dirty with bh209 to get tight groups. Hopefully the other guys on the paramount page can get you the info you need. Good luck.

 

[rcs9250]

Bh209 is very different than t7 I use both but use bh209 in every rifle I have capable of using it.. you can leave it loaded for days without worry. they were not wrong with the comments, a lot of rifles like to be dirty with bh209 to get tight groups. Hopefully the other guys on the paramount page can get you the info you need. Good luck.

Just to be clear, I didn’t mean having a charge in the rifle, I meant a dirty bore from firing a fouling shot to get the “black ring” CVA mentioned. I want to keep corrosion at bay, otherwise I’ll put the money into a new now or crossbow.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I have a paramount it shoots very consistent 1/2 inch or less,,with the factory eLD bullets it'll shoot slightly less than 1 inch,I never clean between shots shooting black horn in any rifle.I do not shoot the maximum charge it's just too much recoil on my gun on my body, I'm shooting fury 265 grain 453 bullets I believe it's a STB, warm weather I do not have to size the bullet as the weather cools I might have to size it slightly,I recommend trying that fury bullet in your rifle even if you have to invest $175 into a swing lock type bullet sizing dye they're very easy to use and to figure out,, one thing I would check and you might have already is your rifle scope Make sure everything's tight and is it possible that the scope has issues? I'm shooting between 74 and 84 grains by weight in my rifle it doesn't show much preference,and as others said there's a lot of paramount information on the site here you can access,,,I have acquired a closet full of modern inline muzzleloaders over the last 5 years The Paramount is honestly the most accurate of them out of the box,as far as a factory rifles go I think it's great I'm sure every once in awhile though that there's one that May have issues.I would check your screws make sure they're tight be confident that your scope is right clean the barrel foul with one shot and shoot three or four different groups starting at 70 grains by weight and working up

 

[Steelheader323]

Just to be clear, I didn’t mean having a charge in the rifle, I meant a dirty bore from firing a fouling shot to get the “black ring” CVA mentioned. I want to keep corrosion at bay, otherwise I’ll put the money into a new now or crossbow.

You shouldn’t have any corrosion issues with bh209. It doesn’t have nearly the same properties as triple 7 or any other black powder subs. Most of my rifles go into the woods with a fouled bore and will sit like that til I see a deer or the season is over and I’ve never had any issues when using blackhorn209

 

[rcs9250]

Tha

You shouldn’t have any corrosion issues with bh209. It doesn’t have nearly the same properties as triple 7 or any other black powder subs. Most of my rifles go into the woods with a fouled bore and will sit like that til I see a deer or the season is over and I’ve never had any issues when using blackhorn209

Thank you, I appreciate your reply.
Two questions:
1. What is the “ black ring” CVA mentioned in their email to me ?
2. Is there a way to foul the barrel other than firing a regular load like I would hunt with ? I bought my ML specifically for hunting.

 

[Steelheader323]

Honestly idk what they mean when they say that. I don’t follow cva very much in fact I only have one cva rifle if the 11 muzzleloaders I own maybe another guy can chime in and answer that for you..as for fouling the barrel do you plan to hunt before going to the range again? If not then just don’t clean the barrel when done at the range and just clean the breech plug assembly. If you are hunting before you go to the range some guys get away with firing off 2-3 primers Into the barrel

 

[rcs9250]

Honestly idk what they mean when they say that. I don’t follow cva very much in fact I only have one cva rifle if the 11 muzzleloaders I own maybe another guy can chime in and answer that for you..as for fouling the barrel do you plan to hunt before going to the range again? If not then just don’t clean the barrel when done at the range and just clean the breech plug assembly. If you are burning before you go to the range some guys get away with firing off 2-3 primers Into the barrel

Is it common with all ML’s to shoot follow up shots better with that first shot having fouled the bore ? I guess I’m spoiled being primarily a centerfire bolt gun shooter. I have sever Tikka T3x’s and cold bore (and clean) shoot deadly accurate.
I’ll have to experiment with fouling via 2 or 3 primer only shots.

 

[Steelheader323]

The difference in point of impact is different with each rifle when it comes to cold bore vs fouled barrel. Some don’t change at all while some are 3” difference from clean cold bore to fouled barrel. Just have to experiment and find out what your rifle will do

 

[ENCORE50A]

By any chance, does your rifle have a muzzle brake on it???

 

[rcs9250]

By any chance, does your rifle have a muzzle brake on it???

Not sure who you were asking, but mine does not.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Not sure who you were asking, but mine does not.

It was you

There are a TON of owners having problems with the NEW CVA brakes. Rifles that are almost single hole rifles at 100yds without the brake, are throwing bullets all over the place with the new brake, some not even keeping it on a 4'x4' piece of cardboard. CVA had problems with the very first brakes and had to go to the source to correct those issues. It now appears that the issues haven't been corrected and in some cases, accuracy suffers terrible.

There are way to many top quality builders who install top quality muzzle brakes, which is exactly the direction I would go.

I asked one of the posters if he minded me sharing his brake photo and he said go ahead. He's contacting CVA today.

This is a brand new brake with 20 rounds shot.

 

[D55]

What is the bore dia.? Is the bore centered? Not a paramount but my brakes are .500 dia. for a load through powder funnel.

 

[ENCORE50A]

What is the bore dia.? Is the bore centered? Not a paramount but my brakes are .500 dia. for a load through powder funnel.

I keep asking but haven't received an answer yet.

 

[rcs9250]

So today I took my Paramount back to the range to try for groups with a fouled barrel.
From this forum I learned three possible fouling methods.
1. Foul with 3-4 primer shots.
2. Light load, no bullet.
3. Regular load.
I tried what would seem easiest, 3-4 primer shots.
Photo shows results. First round is the one to the left. Rounds two, three and four are the group to the right. Not bad. Hopefully varying the powder charge might tighten the group.
Thanks to all for the help and advice.
Randy

 

[lwh723]

Considering accuracy seems to be hit an miss with the brake My guess is it’s some guns aren’t threaded concentric (or it could be brake). I put a couple of shockwave brakes on a local couples Guns. With all the horror stories I went .625 to err on side of caution. Guns still shot great and they were thrilled with the recoil reduction. Hope they do well on their AZ mule deer hunts.

 

[Ninering62]

So today I took my Paramount back to the range to try for groups with a fouled barrel.
From this forum I learned three possible fouling methods.
1. Foul with 3-4 primer shots.
2. Light load, no bullet.
3. Regular load.
I tried what would seem easiest, 3-4 primer shots.
Photo shows results. First round is the one to the left. Rounds two, three and four are the group to the right. Not bad. Hopefully varying the powder charge might tighten the group.
Thanks to all for the help and advice.
RandyView attachment 10945

At what range was that? My fouling shots always tend to be around 3"H & 3"R. My Paramount will shoot very well with max charges too.

 

[rcs9250]

At what range was that?

That was 100 yards. My next trip will be a light BH209 load. Curious if fouling shot will be in similar spot as primer fouling method.
Also, before I went to range I loaded 20 variflame adapters. Ten were the ones that came with rifle and ten OEM ones I ordered from muzzleloader.com. So I fire of two primers and the adapters were blackened pretty much all over, the third one was clean, no soot. Obviously there’s a difference in the two batches. I’m going to take them to work and check all the pertinent length and diameters to see what the difference is. I’ll post what I learn.