CVA Scout 45/70 V2 conversion questions

[LBAhunter]

These are just random questions, as I thought of them, I typed them. I'm sure I will have more questions. Do you have to shoot sabotless or can you shoot sabots? Can you shoot both BH209 and smokeless? or is it set-up for just one type?

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

The Scout conversions will shoot sabots and sabotless. You can get 209, LRMP, and direct ignition and all will shoot BH209 and smokeless powder.

I don't have a Scout but do have a similar Apex 45-70 conversion, it's a great shooter sabotless, I haven't tried sabots in it.

 

[GM54-120]

Only thing you should do with a Scout when shooting sabots is remove the brake. Thread protectors are cheap. The bores might run a tad large for best accuracy using sabots. Pittmans .402s are large enough to bump it up. Lots of 45 ML barrels are nearly the same. Many run very close to .451 on the lands. The Harvester sabots are just slightly loose in those bores but many still shoot them well.

BH209 or smokeless is fine but once you try smokeless you may have 2nd thoughts about BH209. Its way cheaper and recoil is less with the right loads. You can easily run smokeless loads that are near BH209 speeds with less recoil.

A cheaper option is the CVA Hunter 45/70. You get a longer barrel but no SS or brake. Traditions offers the OutFitter G2 in 45/70 and they are using Lothar barrels on those. Older model OutFitters used Wilson barrels if you can still find one. The G2 though cost about the same as a Scout.

Its a shame CVA quit making the Apex and Bergara quit selling barrels for Encores.

 

[LBAhunter]

What size sabots with what size bullets? Would I still be able to use the short black MMP sabots with Barnes 45 ACP TAC-XP and 45 Colt XPB? or would I have to switch to different size bullets? or different sabots?

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Any 45 cal bullet would have to be sabotless, as far as I know. Your best bet would be to use Harvester light blue sabots for 40 cal bullets
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/ ... cal-bullet


Barnes 40 cal all copper Expanders are good for deer hunting but I wouldn't use the supplied tan sabot, use the Harvester
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/12362 ... -box-of-24

You could also use a Hornady 200gr SST, use the Harvester sabot not the supplied tan sabot
https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/spo ... /cat100013

There are some other 40 cal bullets that will work but I haven't tried these
https://www.pittmanbullets.com/accumax- ... g-bullets/

When using sabots, you have to be patient and let your barrel cool, or use a cooling rod, or you will blow/drill sabots.

 

[GM54-120]

45cal sabots using 40cal bullets. Your Barnes XPBs would need to be shot sabotless but there is a good chance they will fit without sizing. Barnes tend to run a bit smaller. Light amounts of N110 would get them zipping right along with very mild recoil. IIRC it was Doug that used that load in one of his custom rifles. 33gr N110 and a 200gr XPB is right around 2000fps.

Pittman and Fury both have some newer interesting offerings in 40cal. The Fury is even cheaper than most and its bonded. $44/50 or $46/50 already knurled is a great price even compared to the SST and they offer a 250gr which is not easy to find in 40cal.

http://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp ... zle-loader

The 225gr Fury did really well in Ron's jug test with 80gr of BH209. Retained nearly 200gr.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=31848&hilit=Bonded+225g+40+caliber+Fury+Bullet

 

[LBAhunter]

BH209 or smokeless is fine but once you try smokeless you may have 2nd thoughts about BH209. Its way cheaper and recoil is less with the right loads. You can easily run smokeless loads that are near BH209 speeds with less recoil.

I'm trying to see my options with BH209 vs smokeless. I have been trying to decide between getting a Knight Mountaineer or going smokeless. If I can run smokeless loads that are near or more than BH209 speeds with less recoil, I'm all for that!!!! Right now with BH209, I'm shooting a Barnes 185 TAC-XP over 2000 fps(recoil not bad). I bet, with smokeless, it should/would be very easy to accomplish that with a very little bit of powder. If it's cheaper than BH209 would be a plus!!!!

 

[GM54-120]

N110 is expensive but you need very little of it. Around $40/lb last i checked.

7000gr per pound
7000 divide by 33gr=212 shots
$40 divided by 212= about 19cents per shot
Almost 21cents per shot at $44 per pound

That is also about the max a sabot load can handle of N110 too. The pressure is not that high but it peaks very fast. There are many other powders that also work well and produce less pressure but you would need to use more powder. Reloder7, H4198 and N120 just to name a few. The cheapest is probably Reloder7 and around 60-63gr will give you over 2500fps with a 200gr sabot load. H4198 is also super popular for sabotless. 55-60gr and a 275gr bullet is well over what BH209 can achieve without using huge amounts.

Run the numbers through a recoil calculator. 33gr vs whatever it took for you to get 2000fps. The difference is quite noticeable im sure. Most guys are not shooting bullets under 250gr sabotless so im not sure how well the slower powders will work. Its my opinion that many of them are just a tad too slow for bullets under 250gr and milder loads. SR4759 is longer made or i would suggest looking into it. It was a wonderful cheaper powder in the old MLII 50cal. Less peak and slower rise so it was slightly more useful for sabot loads.

 

[LBAhunter]

With the twist rate (1:20") of Scout, what would be the range of bullet weights? I was looking at the Barnes .400 155 gr TAC-XP in a sabot that my wife could shoot. Just me thinking out loud, wonder how a Barnes 41 mag XPB be in sabot would fit? Also, would AA1680 powder be something to try or not?

BH209 or smokeless is fine but once you try smokeless you may have 2nd thoughts about BH209. Its way cheaper and recoil is less with the right loads. You can easily run smokeless loads that are near BH209 speeds with less recoil.

I have been trying to decide between getting a Knight Mountaineer or going smokeless.

They are more possibilities with smokeless than I thought. The Mountaineer may have to wait.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

AA1680 looks like it will fall through the flash hole. I'd use H4198 or IMR4198.

 

[GM54-120]

Its a ball powder so no except for maybe direct ignition setups. 5744 will work for reduced loads though. Roughly the same amount as N110 but a bit less speed. Really dirty powder though IMO. I shoot N110 in my NULA with a 225gr sabot load. The stuff is crazy clean burning and super reliable.

 

[GM54-120]

AA1680 looks like it will fall through the flash hole. I'd use H4198 or IMR4198.

If he is mainly interested in lower power loads 4198 will reach a point where pressures get so low its not as reliable. Even 56gr of 4198 makes pretty low peak with a 200gr sabot load.

This is probably starting to show signs of pressure starvation. I dont think you would want to go lower or use a much lighter bullet.

Where as small amounts of N110 are still ok.

 

[LBAhunter]

I thought maybe the AA1680 that is taking up space in my reloading drawer might be able to be put to use....lol....

The more and more I look at the CVA Scout 45-70 smokeless conversion, the more I like it!!!! It's looking like the Mountaineer might not be in the running anymore!!!!

 

[GM54-120]

They are different animals with a slightly different purpose. Very hard to beat a Scout conversion though for what you get. Check with Bestill. I think he might offer a better price on the conversion. The only thing i dont completely care for is the 22"-23"ish barrel. That about all you get without the brake installed. Its rated as 25" with the brake.

The CVA Hunter is 25" blued and no brake. Previous model year Scouts (V1) might have been 25" also without a brake but i cant find any of them left anywhere. The Apex is even better if you can manage to find one. Beefier barrel and adjustable trigger.

 

[LBAhunter]

They are different animals with a slightly different purpose. Very hard to beat a Scout conversion though for what you get. Check with Bestill. I think he might offer a better price on the conversion. The only thing i dont completely care for is the 22"-23"ish barrel. That about all you get without the brake installed. Its rated as 25" with the brake.

The CVA Hunter is 25" blued and no brake. Previous model year Scouts (V1) might have been 25" also without a brake but i cant find any of them left anywhere. The Apex is even better if you can manage to find one. Beefier barrel and adjustable trigger.

Really that's about all the barrel length you need for the amount of quick burning powder your using.

 

[GM54-120]

That is basically true. A standard NULA 24" barrel burns a typical load of N110 pretty much completely with a 225gr bullet. Mine is a 26" and speed is a tiny bit less. Powders like 4198 and Reloder7 will fair better with more barrel and/or a heavier bullet. Lots of guys still get awesome result though with them in the Scout conversions. N120 produces even better speeds for the same amount of powder. Real PITA to find at times though but its a killer powder for SMLs.

 

[LBAhunter]

Check with Bestill.

Thanks for the heads up about Bestill. I contacted him. Gonna pick his brain some. I'm leaning toward the conversion instead of the Mountaineer. I think smokeless may suit my needs better.