Direct Ignition systems

[richie332]

I don't mess with the break actions, only the CF bolt actions. For me, the Hank's DI is definitely the way to go. Although, I may be trying the brass modules in a HIS breech plug with no bushing. Instead, replacing the bushing with a 5/6-18 x 1/2" set screw drilled with a #46 (.080") hole. I know of some using this system and it does work. It is basically a DI system using the brass modules.

 

[D55]

The only reason for using a nut driver to install/remove DI modules is they are small and it is easier to put them in and take them out. You screw them in til they stop. as long as the breech closes you are good to go. There is no amount to speak of of torque applied. I have used them in my Apex and in an ML2.,many shots.

 

[Danny Ross]

Actually, H&R/NEF used the transfer bar, but they are no longer made. CVA and others use what is called a rebounding hammer, not a transfer bar. It serves the same purpose, where the trigger needs to be pulled for the hammer to contact the firing pin.

But you missed the point, it's still a live primer, and I wouldn't ever load on a live primer, no matter what. Even if the barrel wasn't on the receiver. Even though I know the chances of the primer firing are next to impossible. And I agree with you, it is excess caution, and a risk I'm not willing to take.

If you are target shooting at the range, it only takes the time to unscrew the dummy D.I. module before the first shot after loading, and screw in a live primer module. After the first shot, load on the fired module, unscrew the fired module, then screw in the live primer module. After the first shot, it doesn't take any longer to load, than it does for you to install a live primer module before loading each time. You are doing it after loading.

Safety First, Always!

 

[Danny Ross]

First, I use breech plugs I make that use primed cartridges, mostly 9mm Parabellum, but also .32 ACP, .32 H&R Magnum, .38 Special and .45 Colt. They have no flash hole and the propellant loads directly into the cartridge case, except for pellets, which sit at the end of the breech plugs in the barrel. Therefore I pretty much have to load into live primers.

Secondly, If I were really worried about safety, I wouldn't play with guns, because something can always go wrong. Part of what makes guns interesting.

 

[Danny Ross]

This is a link to a thread about using cartridge cases in breech plugs I started on The High Road. I'v made them for old style CVA break actions, V2's and Rossi's, mostly because they all have breech plugs that are 5/8 - 18 threads, and I can get Grade 8 crown bolts from Home Depot for a couple of bucks that are really strong and I don't have to cut threads on my lathes.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...break-action-inlines-using-cartridges.846989/

These are some of the breech plugs I made for the CVA V2's



These are some I made for the old style CVA (in middle) and the Rossi (right). The item on the left is section of hacksaw blade I use for a wrench. I have tested all these breech plugs by firing 3 each 50 grain pyrodex pellets and 350 grain .45 projectiles in 14.4 grain sabots in all the rifles rated for 3 pellets.

 

[Busta]

Good luck to you!

 

[Danny Ross]

Good luck to you!

Thank ya', thank ya' v'ry much.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

This direct ignition stuff I have been contemplating for a long time . The advantages of more pressure more velocity and no bushings does not out weigh the safety factors of modules or the ease of use with modules. I can always add a few grains powder to gain back the velocity . Like anything there is always trade offs . Maybe I will change my mind on direct ignition .

 

[D55]

I have and use the DI and like it in some ways but I did just buy the HIS for my bolt gun. The module system is simpler for both actually,just a few $$ more but wih a bushing. Everyone likes different things, I am staying with DI in my Apex.

 

[edmehlig]

While not really necessary I wonder if a White Breech plug could be adapted for the large rifle primers? Naturally the plunger would need to be modified/ designed like the ones they used to ignite the 209 primers.

 

[GM54-120]

Doc made a system that used a 32 shell case as a primer holder. I think it was just for the Thunderbolt but im not sure.

 

[GM54-120]

336 primer


Breechplug and 336 primer- a 32 S&W case with reloadable primer.

It was obvious, to me at least, that the 209 primer was not the perfect primer for muzzleloaders, even in the special formulations that primer manufacturers came up with, of course at extra price. They were far too powerful for good accuracy and all leaked badly at the breech. In consequence, I embarked on the quest to find one that was even better. I wanted the new primer to be small enough to be unobtrusive, large enough to be handy, self-ejecting with the next load, re-loadable and self sealing at the breech. I tried designing from scratch , in fact spent several years at it, sporadically, but ended up with a common cartridge. In the end, the best one was the old 32 S&W casing. This short pistol cartridge was the first successful commercial center fire cartridge in the world. It fulfilled all the requirements that I had previously designated and in addition could be re-loaded with either regular or magnum primers and was widely available because of its popularity in the cowboy shooting game. It proved to work very well in the field. In 2004, I took it to Africa, using a moderate smokeless powder load. I killed 7 animals with 9 shots, the two extra on a Kudu, never cleaned the rifle once, had no powder residues in the breech to deal with and never extracted a primer by hand. Later, when 209 Blackhorn powder came along, with its high ignition temperature, I redesigned the breechplug internals so that a larger volume of hot gases would get to the powder. The only problem is that the 336 is only useful in a closed breech gun, like the ThunderBolt. It does not work well with a slam-fire type action like the Whitetail or Super-91. Unfortunately, all this inventiveness has come to naught. It was never commercially available except on a custom basis.

 

[edmehlig]

That answered my question

 

[GM54-120]

Knight made orange FPJ adapters at one time that used rifle primers too.

 

[lwh723]

I'll have a CVA replacement plug ready to go in a few weeks using the Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP system.

https://business.facebook.com/arrow...609448931536/2188410347951428/?type=3&theater

Still waiting on a Paramount.....

 

[Busta]

Knight made orange FPJ adapters at one time that used rifle primers too.

The MK-95 Magnum Elite "Posi Fire" used a red plastic .38 special case with large rifle/pistol primers.

 

[ShawnT]

The MK-95 Magnum Elite "Posi Fire" used a red plastic .38 special case with large rifle/pistol primers.

And works very well too.

 

[sbuff]

I tried docs 336 in my thunderbolt, not a fan.

 

[Danny Ross]

Latest build, a breech plug for a Rossi .50 ML that uses a primed 9MM cases.



The bolt is like the one from which the breech plug is fabricated. The object on the right is used to hold the breech plug in the lathe so the jaws don't contact the threads. I tested the breech plug by discharging 3 each 50 grain Pyrodex pellets topped by a 14.4 grain TC #170088252 Sabot and a 300 grain Speer .451 jacketed soft point 45 Colt bullet.

Test was successful. Threads sealed, case intact, propellant discharged properly.

The object center bottom is the wrench used to screw the breech plug in and out. I fabricate them out of steel banding material. The horns fit into the indentations on the breech plug.

 

[Danny Ross]

Actually, H&R/NEF used the transfer bar, but they are no longer made. CVA and others use what is called a rebounding hammer, not a transfer bar. It serves the same purpose, where the trigger needs to be pulled for the hammer to contact the firing pin.

But you missed the point, it's still a live primer, and I wouldn't ever load on a live primer, no matter what. Even if the barrel wasn't on the receiver. Even though I know the chances of the primer firing are next to impossible. And I agree with you, it is excess caution, and a risk I'm not willing to take.

If you are target shooting at the range, it only takes the time to unscrew the dummy D.I. module before the first shot after loading, and screw in a live primer module. After the first shot, load on the fired module, unscrew the fired module, then screw in the live primer module. After the first shot, it doesn't take any longer to load, than it does for you to install a live primer module before loading each time. You are doing it after loading.

Safety First, Always!

Ever handload cartridges? Every handloader is loading every cartridge over a live primer. How do you feel a muzzleloader is different?