Direct Ignition systems

[ENCORE50A]

Ever handload cartridges? Every handloader is loading every cartridge over a live primer. How do you feel a muzzleloader is different?

I've loaded an awful lot of rifle and pistol cases over the decades and while loading them, I never remember one case being loaded setting over a firing pin. I've also never loaded a case while it was inserted in the rifle. While loading cases, I never had to worry as to rather the safety was on, or that the hammer wasn't cocked, or that something could catch on that hammer.
Apples and oranges.

 

[45-70]

because it isn't in a barrel

 

[Busta]

Ever handload cartridges? Every handloader is loading every cartridge over a live primer. How do you feel a muzzleloader is different?

Yes, and Encore already said it.

I know of a guy that has a stock .45-70 that has no breech plug, and has not been converted to a muzzleloader. He uses a primed .45-70 cartridge case as his "breech plug", loads powder and bullet through the muzzle, and THINKS it's a muzzleloader. He lives out East, but that won't fly in my State.

If the rifle is capable of being loaded with a cartridge from the breech, it ain't no muzzleloader. His rifle is a breech loader, even if he loads his powder and bullet from the muzzle.

Good luck you you!

 

[Danny Ross]

Yes, and Encore already said it.

I know of a guy that has a stock .45-70 that has no breech plug, and has not been converted to a muzzleloader. He uses a primed .45-70 cartridge case as his "breech plug", loads powder and bullet through the muzzle, and THINKS it's a muzzleloader. He lives out East, but that won't fly in my State.

If the rifle is capable of being loaded with a cartridge from the breech, it ain't no muzzleloader. His rifle is a breech loader, even if he loads his powder and bullet from the muzzle.

Good luck you you!

 

[Danny Ross]

I'm not a hunter, so it doesn't matter, but our "primitive weapons" hunting season in Louisiana allows any single shot weapon over .35 caliber for deer. 35 Whelan is quite popular, as is 45-70.

The breech-muzzle-loading rifle made by H. M. Pope is mentioned in Ned Roberts book, The Cap Lock Muzzle Loading Rifle.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015060544213;view=1up;seq=43

 

[Danny Ross]

I've loaded an awful lot of rifle and pistol cases over the decades and while loading them, I never remember one case being loaded setting over a firing pin. I've also never loaded a case while it was inserted in the rifle. While loading cases, I never had to worry as to rather the safety was on, or that the hammer wasn't cocked, or that something could catch on that hammer.
Apples and oranges.

Yeah, that firing pin is going to jump up and smack that primer even if the hammer is down, and it it isn't down, no matter that the hammer cannot contact the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. NOT! One can always imagine a scenario, no matter how unrealistic.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Yeah, that firing pin is going to jump up and smack that primer even if the hammer is down, and it it isn't down, no matter that the hammer cannot contact the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. NOT! One can always imagine a scenario, no matter how unrealistic.

I heard a direct ignition muzzleloader fired when the bolt was just closed and fortunately, the barrel was pointed down range. Just lately...……. and the trigger was NOT pulled.

Unrealistic? Most accidents, including deaths, have been considered unrealistic prior to the event, even with all proper safety implementations. GM had all the safety devices known to man implemented on its tire mounting system in the old Lansing plant. Over 4 million tires had been mounted and inflated on that equipment. Then one day something totally unrealistic happened. A tire blew off the rim, went through the guarding, and took the operators head completely off. Unrealistic?

 

[Danny Ross]

I heard a direct ignition muzzleloader fired when the bolt was just closed and fortunately, the barrel was pointed down range. Just lately...……. and the trigger was NOT pulled.

Unrealistic? Most accidents, including deaths, have been considered unrealistic prior to the event, even with all proper safety implementations. GM had all the safety devices known to man implemented on its tire mounting system in the old Lansing plant. Over 4 million tires had been mounted and inflated on that equipment. Then one day something totally unrealistic happened. A tire blew off the rim, went through the guarding, and took the operators head completely off. Unrealistic?

 

[Danny Ross]

"I heard". Got a link to that?

So far, I am only working with break action rifles. I load the primed cases in the breech plug with the hammer down, and the hammer CANNOT contact the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. If you hit the hammer with maul. it STILL would never hit the firing pin.

If you load some bolt action rifles, close the bolt, and the sear slips off the firing pin, the rifle will fire, muzzle loader or not.

 

[45-70]

Well Dan , I hope I'm not next to you on a firing line, I'm glad you like Muzzle Loading . Pope put the bullet in first and then added the primed loaded case. I might add muzzle to breach and also rifle was equipped with false muzzle

 

[ENCORE50A]

"I heard". Got a link to that?

So far, I am only working with break action rifles. I load the primed cases in the breech plug with the hammer down, and the hammer CANNOT contact the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. If you hit the hammer with maul. it STILL would never hit the firing pin.

If you load some bolt action rifles, close the bolt, and the sear slips off the firing pin, the rifle will fire, muzzle loader or not.

Go look it up...… http://hanksmessageboard.freeforums.net/

Break actions would be the worst IMO. Not all rifles have a rebound and catching the hammer on something, could cause it to strike the firing pin. At least with a bolt, you could remove the bolt and load.
Comparing cartridges to muzzleloading…. apples to oranges, again.

SAFETY FIRST...……. because UNREALISTIC THINGS do happen.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Your hand and head is not over the muzzle

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Loading on a dummy module or spent module makes the most sense . I just don’t see that much of a advantage.

To each their own

 

[GM54-120]

I'll have a CVA replacement plug ready to go in a few weeks using the Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP system.

https://business.facebook.com/arrow...609448931536/2188410347951428/?type=3&theater

Still waiting on a Paramount.....

IMO this will be super interesting to see how it pans out. The CVA's headspace can be adjusted by the firing pin bushing. In theory you should be able to go with a very small flash channel as long as you dont exceed Westerns load data. I think the bushing and frame will handle the increase in pressure no problem vs using a larger flame channel. It would end up as close to a DI as possible without the need to load on a dummy or fired module.

Your 223 case head modules might be ideal for the conversion.

AND, just in case you have not seen it.....CVA also has a new 45cal 1-22 Accura LR coming down the pike. It too uses the QRBP.
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/cva-accura-v2-lr-nitride-45-caliber-pr3132nm.html

 

[Busta]

IMO this will be super interesting to see how it pans out. The CVA's headspace can be adjusted by the firing pin bushing. In theory you should be able to go with a very small flash channel as long as you dont exceed Westerns load data. I think the bushing and frame will handle the increase in pressure no problem vs using a larger flame channel. It would end up as close to a DI as possible without the need to load on a dummy or fired module.

Your 223 case head modules might be ideal for the conversion.

AND, just in case you have not seen it.....CVA also has a new 45cal 1-22 Accura LR coming down the pike. It too uses the QRBP.
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/cva-accura-v2-lr-nitride-45-caliber-pr3132nm.html

What's Cabela's s selling? Backorders?

Says "In Stock" Online.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CVA-ACCURA-V-BLACK-POWDER-RIFLE/2005132.uts

 

[GM54-120]

What's Cabela's s selling? Backorders?

Says "In Stock" Online.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CVA-ACCURA-V-BLACK-POWDER-RIFLE/2005132.uts

That looks like the 50cal that has been out awhile

45cal is this part# PR3132NM

 

[Busta]

That looks like the 50cal that has been out awhile

45cal is this part# PR3132NM

You're right. I did a search with the .45 cal part number, and just looked at the title. Missed the struck through party number at the bottom of that link.

Sorry for the confusion, it was all mine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=CVA...movil-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[Danny Ross]

I did a search for the Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP system. Pricey.

https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product-category/build-your-own-muzzleloader/

 

[ENCORE50A]

I did a search for the Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP system. Pricey.

https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product-category/build-your-own-muzzleloader/

You always pay up for the highest quality and top customer service....

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

You always pay up for the highest quality and top customer service....

Absolutley