Does anyone have experience with this ML?

[pacanis]

It's a nice looking rifle.
You've been given a lot of info for shooting conicals through your rifle.
I hope they all shoot well.
The 1:32 is about the perfect non-competitive twist for lead conicals.
I was thinking of having a .54 barrel made with that same twist.

It has some nice deep rifling, too. I'm hoping I can get decent results with PRB's.

 

[pacanis]

What I meant by non-competitive was, the twist allows you to play with a lot of different the loads and grains of powder. In theory, (that's all I know of it) the faster twist is for longer bullets with a higher sectional density. However, the faster the twist the tighter the accurate loads will be.

Ha, thanks. I was wondering about that and forgot to ask.
The twist rate was why I ordered GP conicals and not the shorter PA's. I probably should have ordered some Maxi's to try, too. I do like paper punching.

 

[drpatton]

The twist rate was why I ordered GP conicals and not the shorter PA's

It will shot PRB just like the Hornday PA Conicals, but the load must be low or they will strip through the rifling. The best round ball twists are slow, 1:60 and slower.

The 1:32 is meant for the Hornady "Great Plains Bullets."

 

[smokepolehall]

Probably shoot Lee REALS fairly good

 

[pacanis]

It will shot PRB just like the Hornday PA Conicals, but the load must be low or they will strip through the rifling. The best round ball twists are slow, 1:60 and slower.

The 1:32 is meant for the Hornady "Great Plains Bullets."

Exactly. That's why I was happy to see a deeper rifling than I was expecting. It might allow for a stouter RB charge. But longer conicals will be the bread and butter.

Probably shoot Lee REALS fairly good

I was reading posts on loading problems with the REALS. Something about a tight fit and the bullet wanting to cant as you were starting it. That's why I didn't order any. If anything I'd like to try some Minies, too.

 

[smokepolehall]

Exactly. That's why I was happy to see a deeper rifling than I was expecting. It might allow for a stouter RB charge. But longer conicals will be the bread and butter.




I was reading posts on loading problems with the REALS. Something about a tight fit and the bullet wanting to cant as you were starting it. That's why I didn't order any. If anything I'd like to try some Minies, too.

I have not had that trouble, i lube the REAL start into the bore with my thumb. I have a short starter, i have used just my ramrod. I have a Traditions rock sparker i shoot them in also a T/C Blk.Dia. but it has the dreaded QLC of which no seems to get any accuracy from. I must be the only one that gets them to shoot decently. I have some 320 gr .50 cal i cast. I can send you some to try if your interested

 

[pacanis]

I have not had that trouble, i lube the REAL start into the bore with my thumb. I have a short starter, i have used just my ramrod. I have a Traditions rock sparker i shoot them in also a T/C Blk.Dia. but it has the dreaded QLC of which no seems to get any accuracy from. I must be the only one that gets them to shoot decently. I have some 320 gr .50 cal i cast. I can send you some to try if your interested

Thanks for your input on loading them. And your generosity in offering some to try.
If for some reason these GP bullets don't work out I may take you up on that.

 

[WP79Vet]

Exactly. That's why I was happy to see a deeper rifling than I was expecting. It might allow for a stouter RB charge. But longer conicals will be the bread and butter.




I was reading posts on loading problems with the REALS. Something about a tight fit and the bullet wanting to cant as you were starting it. That's why I didn't order any. If anything I'd like to try some Minies, too.

Bullets that are hard to start seem likely to provide poor accuracy due to the likelihood of misalignment with the barrel and deformation of the soft lead bullet. In watching Idaho Lewis videos on loading ML's, bullet casting, accuracy tests, and so forth, I've noticed that he uses bullets that almost slip down the barrel under their own weight. Not good for hunting due to the likelihood that they will move off the powder charge... but even for hunting, I think you want bullets that fit so well that they can be started by hand, and pushed down to the powder with relatively little force.

Modified Minie bullets which have under-diameter bases with small hollows, like the Hornady Great Plains and PA conical, are easier to start straight, and upon firing their bases expand to engage the rifling, so they stay straight as they travel down the barrel. That may be why they have a reputation for accuracy. More conventional Minie bullets with big hollows in their bases, like those used during the Civil War, have centers of mass that are far forward in the bullet - far enough to be ahead of their aerodynamic centers of pressure - which also gives them a measure of built-in aerodynamic stability.

 

[pacanis]

Bullets that are hard to start seem likely to provide poor accuracy due to the likelihood of misalignment with the barrel and deformation of the soft lead bullet. In watching Idaho Lewis videos on loading ML's, bullet casting, accuracy tests, and so forth, I've noticed that he uses bullets that almost slip down the barrel under their own weight. Not good for hunting due to the likelihood that they will move off the powder charge... but even for hunting, I think you want bullets that fit so well that they can be started by hand, and pushed down to the powder with relatively little force.

Modified Minie bullets which have under-diameter bases with small hollows, like the Hornady Great Plains and PA conical, are easier to start straight, and upon firing their bases expand to engage the rifling, so they stay straight as they travel down the barrel. That may be why they have a reputation for accuracy. More conventional Minie bullets with big hollows in their bases, like those used during the Civil War, have centers of mass that are far forward in the bullet - far enough to be ahead of their aerodynamic centers of pressure - which also gives them a measure of built-in aerodynamic stability.

Totally agree.

I'll also add it depends how well a Minie engages the rifling. When I shoot .575 Minies out of my 1861 Colt Special Model they lose stability somewhere between 50 and 100yds. The rifling is simply too worn, or perhaps the bore slightly too large I've read, for them to expand and get a good bite. And .580's are too hard to load after the first couple shots. But .577 is just right.

I'm guessing these newer conicals were made to shoot well in newer made barrels where they are more consistent. But I'm still keeping in mind I might need to try a few to find one that really shoots well. Much like finding a good pellet for your airgun or 22 ammo your rifle likes.

 

[BP Addict]

I just hate repeating myself. It's like he didn't believe me when I said it the first time.

Anyway... too wet to shoot for fun today, but I did take a couple pics.
Along with the KY kit gun I just built. A pair of 50's.

View attachment 30601

View attachment 30602

I've got half a mind to French gray the barrel...

As I stated before neither I nor Tradition's Local Dealer who has been selling Muzzies for decades, had ever heard of, or seen one with a fast twist barrel so I figured there must have been some miscommunication somewhere.

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I was really hoping I was right as you mentioned you'd rather have the RB barrel.

Enjoy your new toy!

Walt

 

[exarcher]

Thanks.
So I'd be happier in the long run with Maxi Balls?
That can be arranged.

But an over powder wad? That is new to me.
Do you mean what is referred to as a Nitro card? Something about an 1/8" thick and hard? Or like a 1/2" felt wad that is often used between powder and shot in a fowler? Or tow, lambs wool...
I think on another forum I saw someone using a filler like cream of wheat as a buffer. But that was in a fowler between powder and ball.

I'm willing to try anything.
Especially if I can see the results. I was hoping someone had been down this road before.

ox yoke wonder wads work very well,, get a caliber larger than your rifle (if 50 cal, get 54 wad ect) nice looking rig!!

 

[pacanis]

ox yoke wonder wads work very well,, get a caliber larger than your rifle (if 50 cal, get 54 wad ect) nice looking rig!!

Thanks.

I have Eastern Maine lubed felt wads, which look like a similar product. Not in this caliber though.
Next order I place I'll get some.

 

[smokepolehall]

Thanks.

I have Eastern Maine lubed felt wads, which look like a similar product. Not in this caliber though.
Next order I place I'll get some.

You can a;ways try 1/2-to a whole cotton ball over powder. It has the same effect to seal the grooves

 

[pacanis]

I checked and the lubricated wads I buy are called Ox-Wads.
TOTW's version of the Ox Yoke.

But right now I'm happy with the way this ML shoots the way I was loading it.

I do need to find a good load for my Indian Trade Musket though. I've been waiting for a break in the weather to shoot it off the bench. And was going to try a lubricated wad over the ball.

 

[Pathfinder60]

Yeah you can definitely use a nitro card, or a wool wad. I use thinner ones, .030” card or 1/8” wad, usually unlubed. Ive used cards too. Both work. Some times an oversize wool wad can tighten up groups for some guns/bullets. Try both ways.
I say try the maxi-balls because they seem to be available all over still, and molds can be found pretty cheap if they shoot good for you. I prefer the maxi-hunters myself (they're shorter which is better for a slightly slower twist like the 1:32”) but they are just a little harder to find, molds too. Hornady PA conicals or Great Plains Hunters should work well in it too and are in stock at a lot of places but a mold for them could be a problem. Lyman makes a Plains bullet mold. But its a not identical. Lots of options if you look around some. I would tell you to stay in the 240-320 range with conicals in that gun to get her started.

Comment deleted

 

[HC]

Most modern muzzleloader 50 cal. rifles are 1-28 twist.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Most modern muzzleloader 50 cal. rifles are 1-28

yes, sorry @Pathfinder60 i always think of 1:28” as the ‘standard’ twist. The slowest twist i own is 1:30” so i often forget that its not necessarily the norm. Probably 1:48” is just as common as 1:28”.

 

[bronko220002]

I had a Lyman Great Plains Hunter with that 1:32 twist and it shot conical bullets very well. You should be able to pick up a box or 2 of Maxiballs at Track of the Wolf online or somewhere else. I would bet if you had a Cabelas or Bass Pro around you could even get a box there.
If you're into casting there are several molds you can get in the 350-400 gr range that would shoot great in that rifle.

 

[pacanis]

I picked up a Maxi Ball and a RB mould from a member here.

 

[exarcher]

you could try some "no excuses" if you had a mind to.. They would work well in that twist,,, i shot the 495 grain really well in my 48 twist,,, & you can order a trial pak of sized bullets to get the correct fit ie easy to load size... (Products Archive - NO EXCUSES MUZZLELOADING BULLETS) does the frizzen have a "roller" on it? kind looks like so compared to the pistol... should be a fun project! i'd say one wad is good as another... but i plan to try some 'poly" wads at some point,, (i was reading somewhere a guy testing had a significant decrease in group size with them)..