Ed' 45 Caliber Design

[ronlaughlin]

I mailed you 7 bullets today.
Besides designing this bullet (45-380M) from Accurate Molds. I'm experimenting with lead hardness. I melted and mixed 5 bars of Pure lead and 1 bar of 40-1. My hope was to create what I'm calling a 50-1 mixture. The idea is to create a bullet that is like Pure but with a little hardness to it to ensure the bullet will stay on the charge. So I'm interested to see how these bullets mushroom. Depending on the results, I may send you a few more if you don't mind with a mixture of 6 bars of pure lead to 1 40-1. I don't have a BHN tester, but I sent a few bullets to a fellow MM member who is testing them. I'm striving to obtain a BHN in the range of 6.5 - 7.

Distance between rifle and bottles is 25 yard. Powder charge is 50 grain Blackhorn Powder.











Bullet destroyed the first bottle, and tossed it high in the sky. Second bottle was tossed over the horse, and destroyed. Third, fourth, and fifth bottle were holed through, and through. Bullet bounced off the sixth bottle, and ended up on the ground, to the right of the horse about five feet

 

[Idaholewis]

A little bit of Hardness goes a LONG way

 

[Matthew323]

O.K.

Lots of youse guys here are way smarter than the average bears. So if my math is wrong please feel free to show me where I went wrong.

New Bullet Alloy Created from a single 5 lb Certified 40:1 lead/tin bar, and five 5 lb Certified 99.9% lead bars.

1lb = 7000 grains
7000 × 5 = 35,000 grains

40:1 lead/tin, 5lb bar
35,000 ÷ 41 = 853.6585 gr/tin
= 853.66 gr/tin
35,000 - 853.66 = 34,146.34 gr/lead

5lb × 5, 99.9% lead bars
35,000gr × 5 = 175,000gr

175,000 + 34,146.34 = 209,146.34gr

209,146.34 ÷ 853.66 = 244.9995:1

245:1


If my math is correct the alloy is much softer than Mr. Mehlig thinks at 245:1, as opposed to 50:1.

Edit to the above:

Based on Idaholewis's conclusions in the post below this one, the above calculations are correct only if the percentages are truly as listed. 99.9% lead, and 100 % tin

 

[WV Hunter]

Distance between rifle and bottles is 25 yard. Powder charge is 50 grain Blackhorn Powder.











Bullet destroyed the first bottle, and tossed it high in the sky. Second bottle was tossed over the horse, and destroyed. Third, fourth, and fifth bottle were holed through, and through. Bullet bounced off the sixth bottle, and ended up on the ground, to the right of the horse about five feet

Yesir!

 

[sdporter]

Distance between rifle and bottles is 25 yard. Powder charge is 50 grain Blackhorn Powder.











Bullet destroyed the first bottle, and tossed it high in the sky. Second bottle was tossed over the horse, and destroyed. Third, fourth, and fifth bottle were holed through, and through. Bullet bounced off the sixth bottle, and ended up on the ground, to the right of the horse about five feet

Rather impressive. I need to send you a few of mine to test. I don’t drink that much water... lol

 

[Idaholewis]

The Trickiest part of Mixing Lead, and Alloys to Hit a Certain BHN is the PURE Lead, All Pure Lead is NOT Created Equal, I have seen PURE Lead Vary a BUNCH, PURE Lead is given a Range of .015 all the way Through .035 (20 points) This is going off of my Chart that i Follow with my Cabin Tree Lead Hardness Tester, My Hardness Tester has a Machinest Dial incorporated in to it, When i Perform a Hardness Test on a Piece of Lead, i look at the Number on my Dial, then Simply Match it with my Chart.

40-1 Alloy is only 5 points, 40-1 Starts at .045 and goes through to .050, I have Tested MANY pieces of 40-1 Alloy that i get from Buffalo Arms and it Lands RIGHT in the Corresponding numbers.

Now Lets say you get a Batch of Certified PURE lead that measures on the Softest end at .015, Bullets from this Batch of REALLY Soft Lead will NO DOUBT Perform (Mushroom) MUCH MUCH better than Say a Batch of PURE Lead that Measures on the Hardest end at .035

It is my opinion that PURE Lead Measuring on the Hardest end at .035 needs NOTHING added to it to “Hold” the Bore, Where i see the Benefit of adding an Alloy to Slightly Harden up the Lead is if you Run across a Batch of PURE Lead that Measures on the Softest end .015, This is where i had my Problem a Few years ago with PURE Lead Bullets NOT Holding the Bore, I had a Rather Large Supply of REALLY Soft Lead on Hand at that time, This is When i came up with the idea of adding 40-1 Alloy to Harden the PURE Lead up some, So my Bullets would STAY PUT on the Powder Charge

Keep in mind, Our Muzzleloaders are NOT Speed Demons With BIG LEAD, and Real Blackpowder, or Subs such as Triple Seven, and Pyrodex. Take a 450 Grain Bullet in a .50 Cal, With 80 to 100 Grains of Powder They will do About 1,350 Fps to 1,500 Fps, That’s just what they do Folks, if you are Expecting More, you are in for a Disappointment! This is why I RARELY bother taking my Chronograph, I already know what my Muzzleloaders are Doing, and NOT doing. The ONLY time i get Curious Enough to Drag my Chronograph Along is on a REALLY Heavy Weight Bullet, Or a REALLY light weight Bullet.

 

[Matthew323]

Lewis,
I had no idea there was that much variation in what is supposed to be "Pure" lead.

 

[52Bore]

Good test Ron & Ed.
Looks like the large metplat allowed it to expand. More so than Ed’s Gould pure lead bullet testing - Solid with a smaller metplat.
Not as much as the HP.
Penetration matches the expansion with all 3.
Not so sure the hardness had as much effect vs the metplat?

Here’s the Gould solid and HP with same 50grV.

 

[ronlaughlin]

...............Looks like the large metplat allowed it to expand. More so than Ed’s Gould pure lead bullet testing - Solid with a smaller metplat....................

Rick, that is quite interesting how the size of the meplat has more affect on the expansion of the bullet than the hardness of the lead.

 

[Idaholewis]

The Wider Meplat is NO DOUBT gonna Help Expansion, How Could it Not? But Fact is, Lead Hardness Plays a VERY BIG Role as Well, especially at Typical ML Velocities using Real Blackpowder, and Subs such as Pyro and Trip 7

 

[ronlaughlin]

This bullet was powered by only 50 grain powder. It probably was traveling at less than typical velocity of bullets powered by black. Certainly soft lead bullets expand easier than hard lead bullets, no doubt about that. What one could find interesting here is the bullet is harder than the 360g bullet looked at August 2017; it was traveling slower than the bullet did August 2017; this bullet still expanded more than the bullet of August 2017.

Interestingly, the larger meplat was able to overcome the handicap of harderness, and the handicap of slowerness.

 

[edmehlig]

My whole intention was to come up with what I’m calling a 50-1 mixture. Pure lead with a little hardness to it to insure the Bullets will not move off the load. Once my new certified pure lead arrives from Buffalo Arms I’ll send Ron some bullets that are made from pure lead and see how they perform.

 

[GM54-120]

Pretty pictures from that camera Ron.

I love the sound a wide metplat bullet makes when it thuuuwacks something. Using one that wide i would not be too terribly concerned over minimal expansion. Its still gunna displace a lot of tissue and leave a nasty wound channel.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Twenty four hours later -- this morning.