Educate me on powder

Discussion in 'Inline Muzzleloading' started by scottprice, Aug 13, 2019.

Modern Muzzleloader

Help Support Modern Muzzleloader:

  1. Aug 13, 2019 #1

    scottprice

    scottprice

    scottprice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    I always was, and still I am a flintlock enthusiast/hunter. I always shot GOEX 2F in the barrel...I mention the GOEX To give you an idea of what type of cleaning I am used to. I personally find the GOEX cleans easily and I am done in a matter of minutes

    ***Since buying an inline (CVA OPTIMA) I have been doing a lot of reading And started off using Pyrodex, which is the dirtiest dang thing on earth. I doubt anyone could talk me back into using that. I then bit the bullet and switched to BH209 because of Everything I was reading...

    Now, my question is how much different can BH2O9 really be when compared to GOEX, Swiss, triple 7 etc.... Spec sheets do not interest me at all so please refrain from nominal velocity gains and that type of feedback, a deer doesn’t care about that stuff.

    I am interested in reliability, value and at least being comparable to GOEX in terms of cleaning at a minimum. (I mention value, because BH209 for instance is a 10 ounce bottle where as triple seven is 1 pound)

    I am not a competition shooter shooting 500 yards, I am a hunter. Where my maximum shooting distance will be 150 yards and more than likely 100 yards
    ——
     
  2. Aug 13, 2019 #2

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    Administrator Staff Member ADMIN Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,653
    Likes Received:
    250
    Velocity gain is directly related to amount needed. In the case of Goex or Pyrodex you would only need around 80gr by volume of BH209 to equal 100gr of either one.

    Water based cleaners never need to touch my barrel. I never need to swab at all between shots.
    Its far less corrosive and far less hygroscopic.
    Fouling is soft by comparison to any sub.
     
    gman57 and Henry Miles like this.
  3. Aug 13, 2019 #3

    Henry Miles

    Henry Miles

    Henry Miles

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Lincoln Co, NC
    BH209 cleans up easily - with powder solvent, not water. It's more like nitrocellulose powder in this way and the fact it is for the most part non-corrosive. I just recently realized that I had reloaded, after swabbing my barrel, and had left my blued Knight ML in the rack for almost a year now. I expected to find a disaster scene but after discharging the rifle, with normal performance and accuracy, there was no rust. Only a minimal normal amount of fouling. BH209 does foul the bore but it's a different residue from BP, pyrodex or 777. I'm very pleased with the results I have gotten with BH209 and use it solely in this rifle, although it's not recommended for this action type, being an open chamber.
     
    gman57 likes this.
  4. Aug 13, 2019 #4

    52Bore

    52Bore

    52Bore

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    54
    Since your used to cleaning a Flint in a matter of minutes- you will not find you in-line taking any more or less time to clean to make a difference.
    If your hunting 100yds - your Flint and RB will serve you well.
    I’ve historically have used Swiss in competitions and have found BH209 no more accurate- but it is easy - no need to wipe between shots.
    That only leaves your eyesight- a scope can certainly help.
    Good luck hunting.
     
  5. Aug 13, 2019 #5

    Henry Miles

    Henry Miles

    Henry Miles

    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Lincoln Co, NC
    As far as cleaning up goes, my inline ML requires additional work of disassembly, cleaning and lubing parts, and then reassembly. I find it easier to clean a sidelock percussion rifle.

    Additionally, I would say 10oz of BH209 has about the same number of shots as 16oz of substitute when measured by volume, the way BP is supposed to be measured anyway.
     
    Busta likes this.
  6. Aug 13, 2019 #6

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    Administrator Staff Member ADMIN Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,653
    Likes Received:
    250
    70gr of BH209 by weight is pretty close to 100gr by volume. So thats like 56gr by weight for 80gr by volume.

    There are 4375 grains in 10oz
    So you get about 78 shots from that 10oz bottle if trying to get roughly the same velocity as 100gr of Pyrodex or Goex.

    Probably still not quite as cheap per shot but not all that terrible either considering the other benefits. Thats around 51cents per shot if the bottle was $40...Assuming my math is correct. :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  7. Aug 14, 2019 #7

    scottprice

    scottprice

    scottprice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Good info guys. I hate having so many options lol
     
  8. Aug 14, 2019 #8

    scottprice

    scottprice

    scottprice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe I’ll dial my BH209 charge back a bit if it’s so much more explosive than an equal weight of other powders. Honestly not sure why I started shooting 100gr in the first place...but that’s the only charge I’ve shot this far
     
  9. Aug 14, 2019 #9

    CatamountRob

    CatamountRob

    CatamountRob

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    16
    We shoot 80 grains of BH209 by volume with 250 grain bullets, it works great on deer out to 100 yards. I don’t know about beyond that, I find 100 to be a workable limit in my part of the world.
     
    michiganmuzzy likes this.
  10. Aug 14, 2019 #10

    scottprice

    scottprice

    scottprice

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sounds like we hunt similar cover
     
    CatamountRob likes this.
  11. Aug 18, 2019 at 2:20 PM #11

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I tried the BH209 and had nothing but problems. Sometimes it would fire sometimes it wouldn't. I tried cleaning the flash hole changing to the BH breech plug nothing worked. I ended going to Black MZ powder. Found it for 10 dollars a pound and stocked up.
     
  12. Aug 18, 2019 at 2:35 PM #12

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    Administrator Staff Member ADMIN Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,653
    Likes Received:
    250
    In what rifle would that be?

    Because if its that Bighorn or Wolverine in your Knight Doe harvest pic then you should not be using BH209 in a plunger gun anyway. That info is right on Westerns website. Its for sealed breach actions only.
     
  13. Aug 18, 2019 at 2:40 PM #13

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was in a CVA Wolf that I have. I tried the BH plug and had the same problem. Sometimes it would go off and sometimes it would have a long hang fire.
     
  14. Aug 18, 2019 at 3:14 PM #14

    Busta

    Busta

    Busta

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,533
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    MI
    What primer were you using? And what sabot/bullet combination were you using? One of those, is where your problem is, because people shoot Blackhorn 209 reliably in CVA's every day, and have been since the Western Powders and CVA Blackhorn breech plugs came out in 2010-2011, and before that with modified breech plugs.
     
  15. Aug 18, 2019 at 3:17 PM #15

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    Crazyhunter

    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was using a CCI 209 primer and a XTP bullet in a Black harvester sabot.
     
  16. Aug 18, 2019 at 5:54 PM #16

    Busta

    Busta

    Busta

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,533
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    MI
    The best primers are Fed 209A, and CCI 209M, Magnum primers. The Nobel Sport also work great in the CVA's, if you can find them.

    You might have had headspace issues? Were you getting blowback around the primers? Were you cleaning out the flame channel in the Blackhorn breech plug by hand with a 1/8" drill bit? The OEM QRBP's were never reliable for shooting Blackhorn 209. Did you adjust your firing pin bushing to headspace your primers?

    You might need a tighter fitting sabot/bullet combination. There is a sticky on the top of this forum with some examples to help figure it out.

    Here is one.
    sg1kyw.jpg


    Primers
    142rfkj.jpg
    331d3jb.jpg



    The answer to your problem is in there somewhere.
     
  17. Aug 18, 2019 at 8:34 PM #17

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

    Administrator Staff Member ADMIN Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,653
    Likes Received:
    250
    CCI also has a MZL primer that do NOT work with BH209 reliably.

    DONT USE THIS ONE
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Aug 19, 2019 at 10:11 PM #18

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Nine Mile Falls Wa
    I shoot black horn and Winchester blue box and have never had a hang fire or misfire. A hang fire to me sounds like a primer problem or at the very least a dirty breech plug . If the projectile is seated it would have nothing to do with a hang fire or misfire.
     
  19. Aug 20, 2019 at 12:10 AM #19

    Busta

    Busta

    Busta

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,533
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    MI
    Winchester W209 is s good primer.

    If the saboted bullet is to loose for the bore, it can have everything to do with hang fires and misfires. I tested this at great lengths from one end of the spectrum to the other back in 2008 & 2009. Blackhorn 209 needs heat, pressure, and time to ignite and burn properly. Any one of those missing and it's hang fires or misfires.
     
  20. Aug 20, 2019 at 10:13 PM #20

    SteveH

    SteveH

    SteveH

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Clifton, Virginia
    One thing not mentioned yet on this thread is price. Unless you buy it in bulk (5lb bottle) or find a deal, BH209 is currently going for around $50 for a 10oz bottle out of most retail stores which imo, is borderline criminal. I have never shot anything other than BH209 and am not looking at re-working all my loads in addition to enjoying the above-noted benefits of minimal corrosion, easy clean up and consistent results. But if I was just starting out, I think I would have a harder time justifying the price. Until there is a decent alternative, it will keep going up.
     
    herschel conyers likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white