Federal 209 primers

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sbuff

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Are these new, first time I've seem them at my local shop .
Might stop back mid week and give them a try .
 

deermanok

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I bought some of those at Walmart last year. That's the only choice they had.
I always used Winchester or CCI.
The Federals work ok for me.
 

jlynch75

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I've always used Winchester or CCI for reloading center-fire bullets. All my muzzleloaders use #11.
 

MrTom

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I don't use any "muzzle-loader" specific primer with my blackhorn. The Winchester 209 shotshell reloading primers are all I use. Gotta read into some of the sales info ....especially the part of the design of the primer helping to eliminate the crud ring. Primer design is not likely going to change much if you're using T-7 or Whitehots and breech plug fouling in the flame channel is just a way of life with any primer used. Also note that these primers are designed around the federal Bor-lock bullets....another sales tactic. The plain old Federal 209 shot shell reloading primer will likely give you exactly what these "new" primers deliver.
 

GM54-120

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Says right on the package they are made to help reduce the crud ring. They are more likely rebranded Federal Fusion ML primers.
 
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fourbore

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I am a little new to all this and maybe I am not alone. Is it true to say the "crud ring" is a 777 issue and thus Fusion primers preferred while max heat is need for Blackhorn 209 powder and for that Federal 209A is recommended (by my friends)? It does not feel right to have a favorite or ideal primer without qualifying the powder and maybe even the breech plug / gun involved?

I understand any primer will work for any powder. This is the final fine tuning to optimise the primer to the application. Most of us wnat to stack the odds in our favor as much as possible. Montana is not Florida. That is another consideration. And, Not that many deer cross our paths in a lifetime. They all matter to me. Paper is paper, summer time and sun shine, not such a big deal.
 

MrTom

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Fourbore....I think you powder assessment is fairly accurate. Pellets are the worse culprit I think but the 777 powder will also crud up a gun as will some of the other sub pellets of similar chemical composition.

I've had some minor issues with the 209 powder, all of which came with the use of the "muzzleloader specific" primers. I tried shotshell reloading primers in Federal, CCI and Winchester's blue box and all of these erased the powder issues however the Winchester primers are yet and always have been the cleanest shooting primers in my guns. Since having gone to the Winchester primers about 5 years ago I have had exactly one hang fire. It was on a 10 below afternoon in a .45 Kodiak that I range shot about 12 times a couple days prior to the season and decided to NOT clean the gun. The plug was heavily caked up and that caused the mis-fire, not the primer or the powder. Of the three reloading primers I've mentioned I think perhaps the Federals are the hottest but the Winchester primers do an excellent job of igniting the 209 powder in the worst of cold weather for me and are way cleaner than the Federals. I think everyone develops a preference for certain things like primers and I also think there is no set in stone right or wrong in it. Primers are cheap so I suggest you pick up four or five different brands and shoot the to see which trips your trigger.
 

deermanok

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Fourbore....I think you powder assessment is fairly accurate. Pellets are the worse culprit I think but the 777 powder will also crud up a gun as will some of the other sub pellets of similar chemical composition.

I've had some minor issues with the 209 powder, all of which came with the use of the "muzzleloader specific" primers. I tried shotshell reloading primers in Federal, CCI and Winchester's blue box and all of these erased the powder issues however the Winchester primers are yet and always have been the cleanest shooting primers in my guns. Since having gone to the Winchester primers about 5 years ago I have had exactly one hang fire. It was on a 10 below afternoon in a .45 Kodiak that I range shot about 12 times a couple days prior to the season and decided to NOT clean the gun. The plug was heavily caked up and that caused the mis-fire, not the primer or the powder. Of the three reloading primers I've mentioned I think perhaps the Federals are the hottest but the Winchester primers do an excellent job of igniting the 209 powder in the worst of cold weather for me and are way cleaner than the Federals. I think everyone develops a preference for certain things like primers and I also think there is no set in stone right or wrong in it. Primers are cheap so I suggest you pick up four or five different brands and shoot the to see which trips your trigger.
I enjoyed this post and am wanting to say that recently, I ordered some muzzleloader supplies. I bought a box of Winchester 777 primers because that was all I could get. I think I paid about 8 bucks for 100.
I did some checking and see that I can get regular Winchester 209 primers for half of what I paid.
I'll definitely remember the next time I need primers.
 

fourbore

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Fourbore....I think you powder assessment is fairly accurate. Pellets are the worse culprit I think but the 777 powder will also crud up a gun as will some of the other sub pellets of similar chemical composition.

I've had some minor issues with the 209 powder, all of which came with the use of the "muzzleloader specific" primers. I tried shotshell reloading primers in Federal, CCI and Winchester's blue box and all of these erased the powder issues however the Winchester primers are yet and always have been the cleanest shooting primers in my guns. Since having gone to the Winchester primers about 5 years ago I have had exactly one hang fire. It was on a 10 below afternoon in a .45 Kodiak that I range shot about 12 times a couple days prior to the season and decided to NOT clean the gun. The plug was heavily caked up and that caused the mis-fire, not the primer or the powder. Of the three reloading primers I've mentioned I think perhaps the Federals are the hottest but the Winchester primers do an excellent job of igniting the 209 powder in the worst of cold weather for me and are way cleaner than the Federals. I think everyone develops a preference for certain things like primers and I also think there is no set in stone right or wrong in it. Primers are cheap so I suggest you pick up four or five different brands and shoot the to see which trips your trigger.
I wanted to add my thank you for Tom taking the time to post this detailed response. I have better part of 1000 brick of Winchester 209 primers that I use for blackpowder shot shells. I dont shoot the BP ctg shotguns that much. That is a lot of extra primers. I will go ahead and try those for my summer time inline shooting. The frequent breech plug cleaning is quite a chore.
 

JonE

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Jun 11, 2020
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The sticker on my Winchester 209 primers says 2.89 :D I will buy what works, not the gimmick they are racking us over the coals with.
 

wmdbowman

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Feb 11, 2020
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I have an understanding when using Black horn a muzzle loading designated primer is not recommended. I also think any BP substitute that has a very light or white color is a sucrose base with an added oxidizer. Surgar can be hard to deal with as far as cleanup. Only my thoughts. Correct me if I'm wrong
 

GM54-120

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If it says Muzzle Loading 209 on the box...DONT USE THEM WITH BH209.

Ive used a standard Win209 for probably 90%+ of the shots using BH209. They work just fine in a good breach plug.
 

wmdbowman

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I use Winchester or Fiocchi standard 209 primers with BH-209 depending on what rifle I'm shooting. In my CVA Accura the Fiocchi fits best with an O ring . In my Cooper the Winchester primer with an O ring works best
 

sbuff

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I've used the in my white thunderbolt with no issue at all .
If it says Muzzle Loading 209 on the box...DONT USE THEM WITH BH209.

Ive used a standard Win209 for probably 90%+ of the shots using BH209. They work just fine in a good breach plug.
 

wmdbowman

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Can't go wrong with the Winchester 209 primer. They used to be the hottest primer on the market and was all I used in my shot shell reloading.(shotguns). They can run a little small as far as fit in some muzzle loaders but there are ways to overcome that. The point being Black Horn needs a hotter primer than the other propellants that are out there. Proper breech plug design is very important with BH-209 because it can be difficult to ignite as compared to black powder and black powder substitutes.
 

JonE

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I used Winchester 209 today with Alliant Black Mz, and had no issues period. I haven't even tried BH 209 yet... no need to.
 

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