FPJ or Bare 209

[teambuffalooutdoors]

Hi guys,

i saw a video last night with a guy putting a primer in an ultra lite and reviewing the gun - with the bare 209 shooting blackhorn. He really stuggled and took him 3 attempts to get it in.

Do you think a 209 bare is worth the trade-off for almost no blowback and good performance instead of a FPJ/Original disc. I still shoot mine with blackhorn and an orange disc

 

[ronlaughlin]

One doesn't want to hurry. Yes indeed it is worth clean ignition. It is a tight fit, but it does work good. Fingers need to be deliberate, which is OK.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I converted my original disc rifles to the extreme disc bolts and the Lehigh bare primer adapter for that reason. MUCH easier to load a primer and no blow by. More money tho. imo well worth the money.

 

[teambuffalooutdoors]

How bad is the blowback/reliability is on the new FPJ?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Reliability with everything but bh209 is great. Blowby is pretty much the same as from the orange fpj. The Knight factory bare primer bolt option was always sticking the primers in the bolt face of my gun. The Lehigh, other than needing a shim in the primer pocket to stop blow by, was an easy to install and trouble free upgrade. The main cost is, you have to have the extreme bolt to use the lehigh adapter. The adapter itself is pretty inexpensive.$26 i think.

 

[GM54-120]

You are only seeing one of the bare primer options out there. The Lehigh adapter for the FPJ bolt is rather easy to load. If using the Knight bare primer bolt body you can make a tool from a 6mm boxed end wrench. You just need to grind a little off the outside of the wrench so it fits in the bolt body.

You need the $130 Extreme bolt conversion from Sportmans Warehouse and about $40 in parts (with shipping) from Lehigh. You can also just get a Extreme bolt housing and use your DISC bolt internals. I know they fit but did not bother to see how well it head spaces with mine.

The Lehigh plug is $16.50 with 1 vent liner. The NonFPJ adapter is $14.50 and about $7.50 shipping for both. This conversion when using a Extreme or any red FPJ bolt works slick. Ive done several of them.

 

[GM54-120]

Extreme conversion bolt
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...-jacket-muzzleloader-conversion-kit/p/1508879
Lehigh plug
https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=259
Lehigh NonFPJ adapter
https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com/all-products?product_id=258

 

[ronlaughlin]

Hey Scott,

Would this bolt/breech plug convert the fella' rifle to bare primer ignition, for the least expense?

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...-parts/knight-mountaineer-209-conv-k/p/p62025

 

[GM54-120]

Yes and no.

He can only use the plug in that kit if he can shorten it. A machinist can remove material on the powder side and in theory it will work. However the bolt will work with a Lehigh "Extreme/Elite" plug.

Issue #2.
Its been said the bare primer bolt body will need minor machining to fit a DISC action. My bare primer bolt body fits my DISC but others have said theirs did not. Knight will mod them to fit if you call and ask them to do it. They need to know you are using a Original DISC to make the correct modification.

So it is possible to do it cheaper. IIRC Knight will sell just the bolt body also. Minus the internals. Its around $60 plus shipping. Just make sure to tell them its going to be used in a Disc Original. The DISC internals will screw right into a newer bolt body.

 

[sabotloader]

Ron the Knight Bare Primer Bolt is different that the Knight FPJ Bolt in that the Knight Bare Primer Bolt has rails built into the face of the bolt that you must slide the primer into - to insert the primer into the Breech Plug. The picture below shows the face of the bolt and the primer rails. Also this bolt also does not have the ability to insert the adapter correctly or hold it in place when the bolt is cycled

The Knight FPJ bolt does not have the rails, which then will allow the Lehigh Primer Adapter to drop directly into the bolt face plus the FPJ extraction rails will allow the Primer Adapter to remain in place when the bolt is operated. To myself, and I am sure Scott would agree, allows a much easier method to allow the prime to be simply dropped into the opening. I assume this is the conversion that you must use.

I think this might be what you were asking

 

[sabotloader]

Yes and no.

He can only use the plug in that kit if he can shorten it. A machinist can remove material on the powder side and in theory it will work.

Scott, are you saying the the bare prime plug is different than the FPJ/Adapter plug? I use the same plug with either or FPJ adapter and Bolt or the Knight Bare Primer bolt.

Issue #2.
Its been said the bare primer bolt body will need minor machining to fit a DISC action. My bare primer bolt body fits my DISC but others have said theirs did not. Knight will mod them to fit if you call and ask them to do it. They need to know you are using a Original DISC to make the correct modification.

 

[GM54-120]

Scott, are you saying the the bare prime plug is different than the FPJ/Adapter plug? I use the same plug with either or FPJ adapter and Bolt or the Knight Bare Primer bolt

No, the link Ron posted is for a Mountaineer bare primer kit. Using the correct plug you can use either bolt. He would need a Extreme/Elite plug to work in the DISC Original.

 

[ronlaughlin]

So it is possible the fella would be off, and running using the mountaineer bolt, and the Lehigh plug.

https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=259

That is how i would do it.

 

[GM54-120]

To myself, and I am sure Scott would agree, allows a much easier method to allow the prime to be simply dropped into the opening.

Yes, i agree. The Lehigh conversion is easier to load. You can make a small loading tool for the bare primer bolt. Bestill mentioned that is what he uses. A 209 primer will fit IN a 6mm boxed end wrench. You just need to grind some metal off the outside of the wrench so it fits IN the bare primer bolt opening.

 

[GM54-120]

So it is possible the fella would be off, and running using the mountaineer bolt, and the Lehigh plug.

https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=259

That is how i would do it.

Yes, it is possible but i would also check with Knight about just buying the bare bolt body too. Even with the high shipping it should be a few dollars cheaper. Let them know its going to be used in a DISC Original so there are no surprises. Pretty sure Justin knows exactly what is needed and the price was in the $60-$65 range when i asked him.

 

[sabotloader]

No, the link Ron posted is for a Mountaineer bare primer kit. Using the correct plug you can use either bolt. He would need a Extreme/Elite plug to work in the DISC Original.

Yep! Gottcha thank you

 

[GM54-120]

The newer bolts are much prettier and the Mountaineer body is also jeweled and the knob is knurled. SW's pic is generic but if you cross reference the part# its the pretty Mountaineer bolt body. Any of the new bolt bodies though look nicer to me than the old chromed bolts. The machined stainless just look better IMO. Chromed feel a little smoother to cycle maybe at first.

If i was going to do it again i would buy the Mountaineer FPJ bolt body and use the Lehigh adapter with it. You get the pretty bolt and its easier to load.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Yes, i agree. The Lehigh conversion is easier to load. You can make a small loading tool for the bare primer bolt. Bestill mentioned that is what he uses. A 209 primer will fit IN a 6mm boxed end wrench. You just need to grind some metal off the outside of the wrench so it fits IN the bare primer bolt opening.

Me, i see no need for a loading tool. One can easily learn how to load the mountaineer bolt with patience, and practice. Myself, i would much rather load the primer into the slot, than use the after thought adapter.

It isn't so difficult for me to reload the mountaineer bolt when there is snow on the ground, and cold so one is wearing gloves. Never have minded removing gloves to squeeze trigger or reload.

 

[GM54-120]

I have both and side by side i can load the adapter easier. Knight sells a small plastic tool also. It holds the 209 by the nose of the primer. In reality you dont even need the bolt adapter if you use a 209 priming tool like the ones Traditions/CVA sell. Just load the primer right into the plug and pop it out with tool. Kind of a pain though if it gets stuck somehow and you drop the tool.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Yes, of course the adapter is easier to load. The bolts without the adapter are not so hard to load, and are 'cleaner'. No big deal. The adapter is an after thought. Seems like preferring the bolt with the built in primer slot makes me a snob, or is it because of simplicity. Simplicity is maybe why the Omega is so appealing.

Rifles that work are good.