Hardcast Conicals

[idahoron]

If you get the lead over 1000°f for extended periods, couple hours, some of the tin will start to 'burn' out and and make a thick yellow crust on top.

Just repeating what I have read. Going to 1000 degrees is going to create heavy amounts of dross. A guy can skim away a whole pot eventually.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Just repeating what I have read. Going to 1000 degrees is going to create heavy amounts of dross. A guy can skim away a whole pot eventually.

I was trying to rush the heat up process by cranking the dial up but left it too long unattended. I started questioning a few people about it and got what i thought was credible info. I'll find it and we can kick it around, see if it we can tell if it was baloney.
Either way, over heating the lead is annoying

 

[michiganmuzzy]

This was one of the threads that got my interest in the tin burning or seperating at higher temps.
https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/alloy-overheating.63241/

 

[HC]

My Lee 4-20 works very well with the dial set at 7 to 7 1/4. It cycles on and off at 2 second intervals. Don’t know the temperature it’s running at but it makes nice shiny bullets that are completely filled out with no frosting.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

My Lee 4-20 works very well with the dial set at 7 to 7 1/4. It cycles on and off at 2 second intervals. Don’t know the temperature it’s running at but it makes nice shiny bullets that are completely filled out with no frosting.

Can you actually hear it cycling? I have my 4-20 set at 2-3. Otherwise it gets way too hot.

 

[HC]

It’s pretty noisy when first turning on a cold startup, then after it reaches temp then there’s a faint humming that cycles at about 2 second intervals. It takes 35 mins to reach temp. My pot starts to freeze set on #2. ?

 

[Newtire]

I did some reading last night on lead hardness in muzzy bullets. I always thought Maxi-Balls were a harder lead than others I've used based on penetration, but others say they're "pure lead". I've seen the term "hard cast" used for pistol bullets loaded for bear protection or big game hunting but not for muzzy bullets. It would be nice to see a little more info on lead hardness on muzzy bullets.

I have used No Excuses bullets before, but it's been a long time. Maybe 15 years, and I never hunted with them since they didn't shoot well in my rifle. It was before he offered the sizing packs though.

I water drop mine and now powder coat them. After 20 years, they are still hard enough so you can't dent them with your thumbnail. They don't expand.

 

[Bill_N]

These are the 50 cal 370 gr maxi-balls I recovered in my first elk in 2006. The load was 110 gr of Triple 7 with a wad under the bullet. First shot at about 70 yards went through a shoulder one lung and was under the hide at the back of the ribcage on the offside. Second shot at about 30 yards went through the ribcage and the offside shoulder and was under the hide.

The bullet below is a Federal 350 gr Bor-Lock I used on the bull I shot in 2020. I went to this bullet because I'd seen numerous reports of complete penetration at max 120 gr loads of BH209. And I had hunted the area before and figured it might take a longish shot. It turned out to be around 140 yards and I hit a little further back than I was aiming so it went through the back of the onside lung and the liver and was under the hide on the offside.
The shot was at dusk and the bull walked off into the sage and bedded down. I thought he was done but he got back up and followed his cows up the ridge into the high sage and boulders. We found him the next morning about 400 yards away but there was very little blood.

 

[HC]

Bullets look very good

 

[Decay]

That bullet looks perfect! Elk are big and tough. They don’t want to die. One lung and liver is a 500 yd tracking job, but it’s a fatal hit. Both lungs and the elk would have died sooner and traveled less distance. No exit hole and there’s less blood trail, especially if the entrance hole is high. On these big tough animals bullet placement is very important. I’d say you did an excellent job of working to recover that elk. Thanks for showing the photos.

 

[MSalyards]

If you get the lead over 1000°f for extended periods, couple hours, some of the tin will start to 'burn' out and and make a thick yellow crust on top.
It has happened to me with 40:1 from both baco and rotometals but not with pure. Ive heard it mentioned before. Ill try to find that source.

No reason to get lead that hot, 800 is close to perfect.

 

[goco4game]

Great discussion! How are you guys hardening the lead? Are you buying it that way?

I was aware of the Brinell hardness scale but not what hardness would be considered hard cast. Somewhere I read 12-30 would be considered hard cast. But not knowing how hard the bullets I’ve used are makes it a little more difficult to judge what’s desired.

I have some pics of the bullets I’ve recovered on my PC I’ll post when I get home.

If you want a fascinating education, IMHO, about this topic, go to Garrettcartridges.com and study their website.
It is NOT about hunting with 50 caliber muzzleloaders; rather they sell specialty ammo for taking large and dangerous game with the .44 Magnum and .45-70, and have many testimonies to prove their points. The effects of their ammo are very similar to muzzleloading rifles; that is, that a heavy hardcast bullet with a wide meplat shot at relatively slow velocities can be used to take any game on the planet.
Their "SuperHardCast" bullets are made with a proprietary alloy and then heat treated to 25 BHN. They claim this process avoids the brittleness that results in bullets cast with conventional alloys containing antimony, usually at 20 BHN.
Their recommendation, "When using hard-cast bullets, break the animal down (in the shoulder). When using expanding bullets, or lighter hard-cast bullets incapable of shooting through the game, target the game behind the shoulder into the lung and heart area to effect the most efficient kill."
Some sections you don't want to miss:
- About Garrett Cartridges
- FAQ section, esp. "What do we mean by SuperHardCast?" and "What is a meplat?"
- Penetration: the 45-70 & 458 Magnums
- Shot Placement & Bullet Selection
FYI I have absolutely no connection to this company and have never used any of their ammo. However, I do consider their approach to be relevant and applicable to muzzleloader hunting.
Enjoy!

 

[Bill_N]

That bullet looks perfect! Elk are big and tough. They don’t want to die. One lung and liver is a 500 yd tracking job, but it’s a fatal hit. Both lungs and the elk would have died sooner and traveled less distance. No exit hole and there’s less blood trail, especially if the entrance hole is high. On these big tough animals bullet placement is very important. I’d say you did an excellent job of working to recover that elk. Thanks for showing the photos.

They're extremely tough! I've shot a couple with a centerfire rifle and have never put one down on the spot. IMO the Maxi-balls are perfect but the Bor-Lock is over expanded despite the range being about 2x. I'm not blaming the bullet for the shot placement but the expanded diameter is about an inch vs the maxi-balls at .620 and .700. I'm not sure if it hit a rib either but it's certainly not a shoulder joint if it did.

No idea of the hardness of either bullet but I'd guess the maxi-balls are harder plus the Bor-Lock has the plastic tip that drives expansion. Another pic of the Bor-Lock below. It seems like a deer bullet to me. I wrote an email to Federal after the hunt asking about hardness and intended purpose but never heard back from them.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

No reason to get lead that hot, 800 is close to perfect.

Yeah, i know, so im putting a pid temp controller on it because i think theres a t-stat problem with it. I have a new 4-20 pot that i just started using that seems to controll temp better.

 

[HC]

Did you get the 220 V model?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Did you get the 220 V model?

No its a 110.

 

[HC]

We’re probably better off with the 110 V models, several problems are occurring with the 220V model.

 

[Bill_N]

Anyone done business with Maplewood Bullets out of Brattleboro, VT? Found some listings on Gunbroker for bullets with different hardness levels. Going to try some of his maxi-balls to start.