Help choosing a rifle for Montana weapons restrictions

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Bushfire said:
They are all under the "you cannot use the following" part of the bill. Check out the link.

If you read it this way it makes sense.

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Thanks for clarifying Bushfire. I was in a rush to leave for a church meeting and didn't include the fact that those are prohibitions. My bad. Yes, these are prohibitions...
 
As MTScott pointed out, Montana currently has Weapons Restricted areas. Those areas allow the use of modern inline muzzleloaders with scopes and 209 primers. Most of these areas are coincide with the General Rifle season.

The new law creates a "Montana Heritage Hunt" which establishes a special season after the General Rifle season. As far as I can tell, rifles are limited to true traditional-style muzzleloaders (wheel lock, match lock, flint lock, and percussion locks as long as they use musket or #11 caps). All lead projectiles - no gas checks (gas checks are legal for weapons restricted).

This is going to create some confusion...
 
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I just read the regulations. IDK who writes this stuff but it would make more sense if they just said, traditional sidelock rifles, percussion or flintlock, patched round ball or plain lead conical bullets.
 
First off, thanks everyone of the feedback.... a lot of info in the last 24 hours. A guy never knows how a new forum is going to go.

A lot of cool rifles suggested so far.

Bushfire said:
That rules out all the "western" inlines then I think? I think the OP misread a few things and I'm guilty of not reading the regs myself and taking what was posted at face value.

I do like that it levels the playing field of anyone wanting to hunt the muzzleloader season, otherwise the old matchlock is at a real disadvantage!
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What is confusing, is that I copied and pasted that directly from the Montana 2020 hunting regs.

What I understand about muzzleloading is certainly nill, but I have at least researched ignition types since I posted this and understand a bit more. For me, I would prefer a breech primed rifle with 209 primers, but, gotta figure out what I'm limited to. It seems a percussion cap gun can shoot just fine as well, so.... maybe I need both :).

JBBushnell said:
As MTScott pointed out, Montana currently has Weapons Restricted areas. Those areas allow the use of modern inline muzzleloaders with scopes and 209 primers. Most of these areas occur with the General Rifle season.

The new law creates a Montana Heritage hunt which establishes a special season after the General Rifle season. As far as I can tell, rifles are limited to true traditional-style muzzleloaders (wheel lock, match lock, flint lock, and percussion locks as long as they use musket or #11 caps). All lead projectiles - no gas checks (gas checks are legal for weapons restricted).

This is going to create some confusion...
Click to expand...

Good to see a Montana boy on here. I actually lived in Helena for 12 years. I've only been back up near Flathead for about 5 years now. My job is still based in Helena.

Reading MCA excerpt on the special heritage season seems to specifically direct you to use a breech load primer/cap, but as you read on, it they may have missed an "of" in there, which, if you ended up in court with a citation could work to your advantage.... but, I'd prefer not to end up there. This is a 2021 bill though, I'm guessing that'll get corrected??

Try as I might, I can't find a anything in the MCA specific to "weapons restricted areas", which as you made clear is not a special season, it simply restricts you to certain weapons during the rifle season, and most I believe are still bow only during bow season, but there are sometimes special hunts that go outside these boundaries.

The only thing I've found about the restricted areas is what I copied and pasted out of the hunting regs.
 
Probably the best thing to do is call the fish and game department or find out who the game warden is in your area. Give him or her a call to get the right information.
 
GM54-120 said:
Must be ignited by a percussion, flintlock, matchlock, or wheelock mechanism

There is nothing that says HOW the cap needs to be struck or that a sidelock is the only legal method. It only states how the powder has to be ignited.
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Great point, the trick then would be to find an inline gun capable of using percussion caps vs primers. The rules state the gun cannot be "loaded from the breech", but, that isn't the same as "primed" from the breech, so, I think an inline gun using percussion caps should be legit, if such a thing exists ready to buy now.
 
deermanok said:
I just read the regulations. IDK who writes this stuff but it would make more sense if they just said, traditional sidelock rifles, percussion or flintlock, patched round ball or plain lead conical bullets.
Click to expand...

Confusion in the Montana regs doesn't end there.... tryin to figure out what you can legally hunt, not hunt for, what tag to apply for, when to apply and it is legal.... it is part of the skillset of hunting here. To newcomers it can be daunting, but we're all used to it.
 
MTScott said:
I think an inline gun using percussion caps should be legit, if such a thing exists ready to buy now.
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Of course they exist. I linked 3 in my post. There are several others too, such as pretty much any White Rifle. Those are super well made also but no longer made. Nice used ones pop up sometimes. Another step down is the Traditions. They offer PACNW compliant inlines and sidelocks. None of their inlines though are available in stainless.
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/northwest-traditions-buckstalker-rifle-r72113540wa.html
Another less expensive option is the Knight Wolverine but it only ships in 209 so you would also need to buy a couple percussion parts which are fairly cheap. SS, light weight and a Timney trigger all for around $325.
https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/wolverine-freedom-muzzleloader/
 
MTScott said:
First off, thanks everyone of the feedback.... a lot of info in the last 24 hours. A guy never knows how a new forum is going to go.
Click to expand...

This is a great forum. I spend most of my time in the Sidelock/Traditional and Smokeless forums but have not seen a bad forum here.

MTScott said:
It seems a percussion cap gun can shoot just fine as well, so.... maybe I need both :).
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Both is good
👍


MTScott said:
The only thing I've found about the restricted areas is what I copied and pasted out of the hunting regs.
Click to expand...

The regs for the new Heritage Hunt hunt aren't out in print yet, since the law was just passed. What you cut and pasted are the current restrictions for hunting with a muzzleloader in a Weapons Restricted zone. Although my interpretation is that you will need a sidelock or under hammer to hunt the Heritage season, we won't know until FWP prints it in the regs. And there's no guarantee that that will end the confusion...
 
GM54-120 said:
Of course they exist. I linked 3 in my post. There are several others too, such as pretty much any White Rifle. Those are super well made also but no longer made. Nice used ones pop up sometimes. Another step down is the Traditions. They offer PACNW compliant inlines and sidelocks. None of their inlines though are available in stainless.
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/northwest-traditions-buckstalker-rifle-r72113540wa.html
Another less expensive option is the Knight Wolverine but it only ships in 209 so you would also need to buy a couple percussion parts which are fairly cheap. SS, light weight and a Timney trigger all for around $325.
https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/wolverine-freedom-muzzleloader/
Click to expand...

You cannot beat the "Buckstalker" for the money, in my humble opinion.
I really like the easy removal breechplug.
 
How does the Optima V2 NOT beat the Buckstalker?

Roughly the same cost if you plan on adding a scope, SS instead or cerakote, no plastic trigger guard and far better costumer service from all the reviews ive seen. Weight difference is minimal and you get a longer barrel with the Optima. I would even give a slight edge to the Optima with mount options. At least 1 vendor makes a 7075 rail for it. You can buy the model with the Durasite scope mount and buy the PACNW conversion for under $40 so im not seeing anything better with the Buckstalker.

Base model with mount $290
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/brands/cva-optimatm-v2-pr2020sm.html
$35 for the conversion parts
https://www.muzzle-loaders.com//cva-northwest-conversion-kit-ac1697.html
Its $250 for the Buckstalker without rings/bases and ive see the Optima sell for $260 during the fall sales.
 
If you're just looking to hunt in the Weapons Restricted zones in Montana, then my understanding is that any inline will
brad502a said:
does gas check also mean an over powder wad?
Click to expand...

I don't think so... I have never interpreted it that way, but have never asked and have never been checked.
 

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