help me dial in my accuracy

Discussion in 'Inline Muzzleloading' started by idiggplants, Sep 4, 2019.

Modern Muzzleloader

Help Support Modern Muzzleloader:

  1. Sep 4, 2019 #1

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    hey folk. so i have a new cva accura... sold my optima v1 last spring.

    i posted recently and you all suggested i either shim or use o-rings to eliminate blowback... but on to a new issue..


    here is what im currently shooting...
    cci 209M
    blackhorn 209 - 100 grains
    HARVESTOR CRUSH RIB SABOTS(green)
    Hornady 44Cal .430"Dia PISTOL BULLETS 240 GR HP XTP

    right now im getting 3" groups at 100 yards, and 6+ at 200. im set up on sandbags, and im a reasonably capable shooter, so im pretty confident that the problem is not me.

    i have a vortex diamondback 4-12 im swapping on to it to eliminate the possibility that it is the hardware(currently using a cabelas 3-9 powderhorn).

    but beyond that, what do you all think i should start with to tighten up my groups? will the o-rings do much? if not, i was thinking the rib sabots might be too loose for the blackhorn? i have some non ribbed green HARVESTER PREMIUM SABOT that i have laying around. im not sure if those would seal up any better... or if i should go straight for something else.

    i have limited time to spend at the range, and a limited amount of time before the season, so id like to try to figure out what might have the best chance of fixing my groups. maybe i should drop/raise the powder? am i way off on the bullet weight?

    the other concern is all of my knowledge on inlines is adaptations from what ive learned with my flintlock, and a bit of what ive picked up searching forums... so random inline/muzzleloader pointers that could be affecting my groups might be helpful to. some thoughts that i have...

    at the range, should i be reloading the gun immediately after firing, or will the heat and residue from the previous shot introduce moisture into the new load and cause inconsistent shots?

    when hunting, should i toss the unused primer that i pull out at the end of the day? im just learning about headspace and primer crushing and all that jazz. ive typically tossed the primer to the side to use the next day.

    should i be drying the barrel or anything before reloading after the last clean? aka, i clean today... next month i go to the range... should i be swabbing out the protective oil? ive seen folk say that they fire a primer down the barrel to pre foul the barrel for a good seal, ive seen others say they do not. i could always save the discarded unused primers from hunting that i mentioned above.

    ive seen people speak about the importance of cleaning the flash channel with a drillbit. now often does this need to be done? between every shot, or after cleaning? how about the flash hole?


    thanks everyone!
     
  2. Sep 4, 2019 #2

    BuckDoeHunter

    BuckDoeHunter

    BuckDoeHunter

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    121
    My son's Accura likes 110 grains (Volume) BH209, Barnes 250 grain TEZ, Harvester smooth black sabot, Win. 209 primer. I don't think I've ever shot anything else and usually get MOA accuacy. I do not swab between shots but clean the rifle after every range session. The breech plug gets cleaned of all carbon and soot, I use a drill bit every time when cleaning the flash channel but I don't touch the flash hole, it's self cleaning.

    I use a cotton shirt patch dampened with alcohol to clean all oil residue out of the barrel before hunting or a range session. I first use a dry patch, wet patch, then another dry patch, then fire 3 primers to clear/foul the bore. This works good on all my rifles.

    If it's warm out, I would wait 5-10 mins before reloading while at the range, if you don't want to wait, use a cooling rod in the barrel.
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  3. Sep 4, 2019 #3

    ronlaughlin

    ronlaughlin

    ronlaughlin

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,566
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Rapid City, South Dakota
    Yes, give these a try; very well may help........
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  4. Sep 4, 2019 #4

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

    Supporter Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Central Indiana
    Using a premium bullet, as BuckDoeHunter described above will definitely tighten up those 200 yd groups. Good luck.:lewis:
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  5. Sep 4, 2019 #5

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    thank you. unfortunately, i cant switch up everything im using. so im hoping to just change a few things... ideally keep the bullets, change the sabots, or change the bullets, keep one of my 2 sabot options. id also prefer to keep the same primers, as i bought them by the 1000, so ive got plenty, haha.

    ive got no problem waiting. i didnt think about it till after the trip to the range. im usually there with 2 or more guns anyway, so i can send some lead down range through one of my less accurate guns while i wait.

    thanks again!
     
  6. Sep 4, 2019 #6

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks. do you think they will be ideal though? i read that harvesters are typically the thinnest. should i get mmp?

    im pretty sure i have the right color for my 240g bullets.
     
  7. Sep 4, 2019 #7

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    interesting. unfortunately that would require me to get new sabots too... but if thats the only thing that will tighten my groups, i suppose that is what i need to do.

    for some reason, i can only find them as sabot packages. rather than bullets with sabots separately.
    https://www.cabelas.com/product/Barnes-Spit-Fire-T-EZ-Sabots/740899.uts
     
  8. Sep 4, 2019 #8

    dragonfly

    dragonfly

    dragonfly

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    14
    Don't use any product containing Teflon in the bore for storage. Barrel should be clean and dry before loading. No need to swab between shots. Let her cool down before reloading. Make any changes to your load one at a time to eliminate any confusion. Bullet/sabot combination should be relatively tight in the bore. My Omega likes .452 300gr XTP's over Harvestor smooth black sabot. When reloading, make sure the bullet is firmly seated. Keep BP clean...no carbon buildup.
     
    ShawnT, Underclocked and idiggplants like this.
  9. Sep 4, 2019 #9

    deerlessbob

    deerlessbob

    deerlessbob

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    10
    I had a similar problems with that bullet-sabot combo. I talked to Alan Hensley at Harvester and he sent me some of the smooth green sabots. They really tightened up my groups. He said the Accuras run a little larger in the bore.
     
  10. Sep 4, 2019 #10

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    ill have to check my cleaning products. just recently found out that bh209 likes centerfire cleaners. never heard the teflon thing. clean and dry before loading... aka dry swab it? should i send some primers down the barrel to foul it first?

    keep BP clean? what does that stand for?

    as for firmly seating, i usually send it down with my ramrod, and then once it gets to the powder, i just press hard with the palm saver. no jabbing/ramming motions though. unfortunately, i cant keep the palm saver on the rod because the tip i use for the hollow points make the ramrod stick out of the end too much and the palm saver could spin in front of the barrel.

    is their a sabot youd suggest that would work better with my bullet, or do you think i need to look at a new bullet?

    guess i forgot to say that accuracy isnt all im worried about. i also would like to drop a deer at 200 yards.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  11. Sep 4, 2019 #11

    Underclocked

    Underclocked

    Underclocked

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,501
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Greenfield, Missouri
    I again recommend the
    Harvester black crushed rib https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....black-sabots-holds-45-caliber-bullets-50-pack

    Sierra .45 Caliber .4515 Diameter 300 Grain Jacketed Soft Point https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....in-jacketed-soft-point-sports-master-50-count
    OR 45 Caliber .4515 Diameter 240 Grain Jacketed Hollow Cavity https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000078830/45-caliber-point4515-diameter-300-grain-jacketed-soft-point-sports-master-50-count

    If you go to the 300 grain bullets I would drop the charge to 90 grains by volume of BH209. For either or any bullet, don't be stuck on a 100 grain or any given charge, vary up and down in 5 grain increments from your starting point to see how groups are affected. Then choose the best number. :)


    Do everything about your loading method, barrel condition, and cooling time as identically and consistently as possible. First shot on a clean dry bore and I like to try to make every shot the same in that regard. That is much less critical with BH209 as there is really little gain from swabbing the bore for at least a dozen shots. You should also be able to get several shots in before using the bit on the breech plug, but I would do so after a dozen shots or so. And don't get in a hurry.

    Make sure those rings and bases are snug.

    Every .50 caliber CVA Bergara barrel I have slugged mic'd out at .501 ± very tiny amounts. I think whoever suggested CVA barrels run large must have been referring to the older models.
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  12. Sep 4, 2019 #12

    dragonfly

    dragonfly

    dragonfly

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    14
    If you expect to drop a deer at 150yds, you're going to need accuracy. BP = breech plug. Keep the flash channel clear of carbon. You'll get many opinions on bullet sabot combinations as there are many that work well. I don't own an Accura but those that do can chime in and tell you works for them and get you started in the right direction. All rifles are different and you may need to shoot a lot to find what your rifle likes. Enjoy the process. Have fun.
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  13. Sep 4, 2019 #13

    Underclocked

    Underclocked

    Underclocked

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,501
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Greenfield, Missouri
    idiggplants likes this.
  14. Sep 4, 2019 #14

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok, so a quick thought on the pro's and cons of the 300 vs 240? assuming the main goal is to take deer out to 200 yards.

    do you think i need to go to a different bullet, or do you think ill have good luck playing with different sabots? i can do either, id just like to not have to try 50 different things before hunting season. sort of looking for what will be my best bet. after hunting season i can play with a few other options.

    and that includes playing with grains, but i was thinking that would be after i got a bit closer groupings than 3moa. i figure there has to be something going on more than powder loads. id like to get the big stuff figured out first.

    rings and bases will be and are always torqued with a torque wrench to recommendations. im not completely ruling out the scope as the issue. its a cheap cabelas model. and while it held true with my old optima, i definitely notice a sharper recoil with the bh209. could have exceeded the scopes limits. pretty sure the scope has a short range parallax too, so the upgrade is going to be nice for a variety of reasons. i just hope the mil dots work out to reasonable distances that are easy to remember.
     
  15. Sep 4, 2019 #15

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes i agree. im just clarifying for everyone so they keep in mind that im not just looking for paper accuracy.
     
  16. Sep 4, 2019 #16

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Nine Mile Falls Wa
    I shoot an Accura with 77 weighed gr - 110 by volume of BH209. I use a 300 gr Deep Curl Speer bullet and a Black Harvester crush rib sabot and a Win blue box 209 primer. Works good for me! Chronograph reads almost a steady 2038 fps.
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  17. Sep 5, 2019 #17

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks everyone. so it sounds like a couple of you are saying switching to the green smooth sabots will help, but most everyone is saying new bullets? i was hoping just swapping to new sabots would do it. guess ill have to take a few range trips, one of which real soon. sight in the new scope with a few shots at 100 yards, a few at 200, and the switch to the smooth sabots a few times, and then if that doesnt work, it looks like ill be buying new bullets and sabots. hopefully either the scope or the smooth sabots help. if not, then it'll be down to decision time.
     
  18. Sep 5, 2019 #18

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    MSalyards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Nine Mile Falls Wa
    I have never shot a 44 cal bullet but I believe that is what the green sabots are for. I've shot both the black sabots that Harvester sells and my gun likes the crush rib the best with the 452 Deep Curl bullet. Others have better luck with the slick ones. Your gun and bullet combo may vary.
     
    idiggplants likes this.
  19. Sep 5, 2019 #19

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    idiggplants

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    according to harvestor, green are for .429-.430. and my XTPs are .430". ill keep my fingers crossed that the slick ones will help out. the more i think about it, the more im bewildered as to why its shooting 3moa. seems a bit shocking.
     
  20. Sep 5, 2019 #20

    LarryBud

    LarryBud

    LarryBud

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    20
    I think a 6” group at 200 is pretty good.

    I bet the smooth greens will help and then adjust the powder as needed and you’ll be GTG for hunting.
     
    idiggplants likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white