help me dial in my accuracy

[idiggplants]

I think a 6” group at 200 is pretty good.

I bet the smooth greens will help and then adjust the powder as needed and you’ll be GTG for hunting.

to be honest, i think i was being very generous with that guestimate. it was a situation where i was basically at 3ish inches at 100 yards, and then at 200 i was playing with the different hold over crosshairs, so i had no real measurement to go off of, and i didnt really care about anything except that my accuracy would be unacceptable at that distance..

 

[ShawnT]

.429-.430 Diameter Bullets are for the 44Mag. I personally never got the accuracy that I did with .451-.452 (45ca)" bullets, but others have. Try your smooth Greens with the XTP and work with the charge a bit, you just might find a good load. IF not then step up to 45cal bullets and a couple sabots for them.

How easy or hard they load can also affect accuracy. Just because the sabot says it is good for .429 AND .430 (or .451 and .452 for that matter) does not mean both size bullets will shoot the same in the same sabot. You can usually tell the difference in the loading force it takes to load one over the other. I never get as good of accuracy with any combo that loaded easy, just got too many fliers. Tighter loading closed up the groups for me.

About 2 years ago I had a scope crap out past 125yards. The Parallax got bad past 125 so it went back and got rebuilt. I had a least 5" of Parallax at 200 but very little at 100. I've seen parallax before but this showed up different for me. Usually saw it closer to 100yrds.

 

[idiggplants]

.429-.430 Diameter Bullets are for the 44Mag. I personally never got the accuracy that I did with .451-.452 (45ca)" bullets, but others have. Try your smooth Greens with the XTP and work with the charge a bit, you just might find a good load. IF not then step up to 45cal bullets and a couple sabots for them.

How easy or hard they load can also affect accuracy. Just because the sabot says it is good for .429 AND .430 (or .451 and .452 for that matter) does not mean both size bullets will shoot the same in the same sabot. You can usually tell the difference in the loading force it takes to load one over the other. I never get as good of accuracy with any combo that loaded easy, just got too many fliers. Tighter loading closed up the groups for me.

About 2 years ago I had a scope crap out past 125yards. The Parallax got bad past 125 so it went back and got rebuilt. I had a least 5" of Parallax at 200 but very little at 100. I've seen parallax before but this showed up different for me. Usually saw it closer to 100yrds.

i currently am able to load semi "easy" as in, i dont have to slam the ramrod up and down. basically i can start it with the ramrod(occasionally ill need the starter ball for the first 1/2"), and then i can get it down the rest of the way with 2 hands on the rod, only for the last 3" where i cant get a hand on the ram rod do i need the "palmsaver" which in my case is the starter ball on its side.

otherwise, sounds great. sounds like im on the right path then. im going to try the smooth green sabots and see if i can get lucky. if not, ill go for what underclocked suggested and get

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....in-jacketed-soft-point-sports-master-50-count
and
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....black-sabots-holds-45-caliber-bullets-50-pack

although i currently have a pointed tip on my ramrod and starting ball that goes into the hollow point. similar to this:https://basspro.scene7.com/is/image/BassPro/920759_40488_is

guess i can take that off if i use a non hollow point bullet? that was always fine with my flintlock... figured that the marring of the bullet face wouldnt be as acceptable with an inline.

 

[ShawnT]

I can't start any of the loads I normally hunt with using just the rod. I always use a short starter and then 2 hands on the rod unless using a T-Handle rod. I just use the standard flat Jag that comes on the rod to load Hp's like the XTP or Deep Curl. Both have softer lead cores in the middle an no need to the pointed loading jag that goes down into the HP. The loading force your have sounds about right, but I prefer them to be tight enough to need the short starter.

 

[idiggplants]

I can't start any of the loads I normally hunt with using just the rod. I always use a short starter and then 2 hands on the rod unless using a T-Handle rod. I just use the standard flat Jag that comes on the rod to load Hp's like the XTP or Deep Curl. Both have softer lead cores in the middle an no need to the pointed loading jag that goes down into the HP. The loading force your have sounds about right, but I prefer them to be tight enough to need the short starter.

ok cool. sounds to me that yours are loading a bit easier actually. so maybe a bit tighter of a fit is in order.

id love to remove the pointed loading jag as it adds extra length to my RR which doesnt allow me to leave the palm saver on. seems like most people use them though. like the barns bullet aligner, etc. and now that i might be going to a non hp, I REALLY have no clue what to use. haha.

 

[MSalyards]

The Deep Curl 300gr Speer bullet has a HP and I have seen some really good reviews on it. I asked the question about using it as an elk bullet and got some real positive answers. I have the Nitride barrel on my Accura V2 and it shoots well with open sights , however I went to a peep sight rear and a Lyman front. Washington does not allow scopes yet.

 

[idiggplants]

The Deep Curl 300gr Speer bullet has a HP and I have seen some really good reviews on it. I asked the question about using it as an elk bullet and got some real positive answers. I have the Nitride barrel on my Accura V2 and it shoots well with open sights , however I went to a peep sight rear and a Lyman front. Washington does not allow scopes yet.

ohh, so it does have a HP. i was thinking of the sierra 300gr. so basically ill just keep my current ramrod/starter setup.

here in PA we get the best of both worlds, IMO... a traditional hunt.. iron sights, flintlock only, no blaze orange required, antlered or antlerless, but its late in the season, cold, and the deer are harder to hunt... and we also have an anything goes ML season where as long as you are loading through the muzzle, you are good to go... doe only, but its the earliest non archery season. i call it my freezer filling week, cause the deer arent wise to people being in the woods yet, and not many people are out in the woods yet.

 

[ShawnT]

i currently am able to load semi "easy" as in, i dont have to slam the ramrod up and down. basically i can start it with the ramrod(occasionally ill need the starter ball for the first 1/2"), and then i can get it down the rest of the way with 2 hands on the rod, only for the last 3" where i cant get a hand on the ram rod do i need the "palmsaver" which in my case is the starter ball on its side.

This to me at first sounded like yours loaded easier. I Can't start mine with a RamRod at all. I have to use a short starter to get it past the crown on every bullet/sabot.

I would not use the Pointed Loading tip for the XTP or Deep Curl as I don't see it of any benefit for those bullets. I see those mostly used on some of the Shorter Brass bullets. They would be good for bullets shorter than the pedals of the sabot so the jag does not go down into the sabot during loading. For the XTP or DC the regular more flat jag or one that fits the Ojive is all that is needed. I even use the standard jag on a Lehigh CF with no issues.

The 45cal 300 grain deep curl has a HP but it is shallow and much more shallow than I remember a 300gn XTP being. On the other hand the 45cal 250gn Deep Curl has a huge HP. The Deep curl is also a bonded bullet so it hold together better than the XTP. The XTP is a great bullet though and is more than capable of taking Deer.

 

[treepotato]

Something else to consider is indexing your sabots every time you load. With my Accura V2 I align one of the sabot slits with the front sight. In my gun this puts two rifling lands in even contact with each of the sabot sections.

Disclaimer: I'm extremely new at this too and found out this tip somewhere else in this site. I struggled with accuracy with an Optima and this is one of the "load consistently" things the experienced shooters seem to do, but it's such a built in habit it doesn't immediately get mentioned. CVA replaced my gun with an Accura and from tips here its down to 3/4 inch 100 yard groups. Good luck, I'll be watching this thread for things to pick up too.

 

[jlynch75]

I think you're problem may be to much powder, so try reducing the load in the 80-90gr by volume range. I've used both the green and black sabots from Harvester and in my gun it doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

[GM54-120]

Here we go again. A load that is great at 100 yards might not perform correctly even if it shoots well at 200 yards. You must tailor the load to do both and that might mean a pretty stout load to get enough fps at 200 yards for the bullet to expand as designed.

Lets run some numbers. Im guessing you need no less than 105-110gr of BH209 by volume or roughly 1900-1950fps at the muzzle to retain enough speed at 200 yards for a 300gr DC to expand correctly. A 100gr load is going to be cutting it pretty close if a 200 yard shot presents itself. 100grV of BH209 and a 300gr bullet will put you at around 1850fps MV.

.233 BC is probably generous at 1950fps but lets run with it anyway. A BC of about .220 is probably more realistic at that speed.

 

[MSalyards]

Nice chart! I chronographed my weighed load of 77 gr of BH at an almost constant 2038 fps . I don't think there would be much change.

 

[idiggplants]

Just wanted to report back a big ole thank you to the group. i switched to the non-ribbed harvesters and got my groups down to 1moa. here is a 3 round group at 200 yards. measured out to 2"... hell yeah!

https://imgur.com/Z7rljTB

now to figure out where it shoots at 150 yards so i can figure out my hold over amount. are there ballistic charts out there for inlines? im at a 13" hold over at 200 yards. im sure holding over 50% would get me in the vitals, but id like to be as close as possible. i dont have access to a 150 yard range, unfortunately. well, i do, but i wont have access to it till after hunting season.

after the season i may try to work up some other loads. see if i can do a hotter load with some 300 gr bullets. can never have too much takedown power IMO.

 

[MSalyards]

What bullet were you shooting? I just killed a deer with the Deep Curl load that I shoot and it was unbelievable. I shot it in the neck and had 2 holes going in and out. when I skinned it the tissue damage was crazy. The only thing holding it's head on was the hide. It's head just fell off! Not really blood shot but more like a bomb went off . I would and will use this load for an elk load any time.

 

[idiggplants]

What bullet were you shooting? I just killed a deer with the Deep Curl load that I shoot and it was unbelievable. I shot it in the neck and had 2 holes going in and out. when I skinned it the tissue damage was crazy. The only thing holding it's head on was the hide. It's head just fell off! Not really blood shot but more like a bomb went off . I would and will use this load for an elk load any time.

cci 209M
blackhorn 209 - 100 grains
HARVESTOR SABOTS(green) non crush rib
Hornady 44Cal .430"Dia PISTOL BULLETS 240 GR HP XTP

i plan on switching out to the 300gr deep curl and black sabots and seeing if i can get a load dialed up for them, but it will have to wait till after this season. right now my focus is working up a load for my 30-06.

 

[GM54-120]

Western has claimed speeds for 100gr of BH209 by volume and the 44cal 240gr XTP
Its 1925fps
https://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf

Hornady has a calculator but the claimed BC is probably for 44mag speeds so you might want to look at 444 Marlin to get closer.
The 44 mag 240gr XTP claimed BC is .205 at 1350fps
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

Assuming the BC is close and MV is 1925fps, if sighted in at 100 yards you will be about 4" low at 150 and down to 1400ish fps

 

[idiggplants]

Western has claimed speeds for 100gr of BH209 by volume and the 44cal 240gr XTP
Its 1925fps
https://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf

Hornady has a calculator but the claimed BC is probably for 44mag speeds so you might want to look at 444 Marlin to get closer.
The 44 mag 240gr XTP claimed BC is .205 at 1350fps
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

Assuming the BC is close and MV is 1925fps, if sighted in at 100 yards you will be about 4" low at 150 and down to 1400ish fps

hmm. that is a bit over my head. what does it say for 200 yards? would be able to confirm its semi accurate if its saying somewhere around 13" low at 200 yards. many thanks though! thats awesome.

 

[GM54-120]

Personally i think the BC is too high at that speed. Probably closer to .190 but........

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Most .50 cals will shoot a .45 or even .458 cal bullets better than .44 cal bullets when trying to develop hotter loads . This is because sabots are thinner with .45 cal bullets . Most guns when shooting smaller diameter bullets like .44 or .40 cal bullets will achieve their best accuracy with reduced charges . You may want to try a reduced charge . All guns are different this is just a suggestion .

 

[GM54-120]

Yeah ive never gotten 50x44 to shoot as good near max loads. I can take the same bullet weight and nearly the same sabot OD and never gotten better results than a 50x45 or 50x458.