Help me pic a New Muzzleloader

[Sideshow]

the replacement plug is inexpensive relatively, easy to install, just slow down and read the instructions if you have any questions there's videos online how to do it,, I kind of owe where I am today with muzzleloaders to blackhorn powder indirectly, if I hadn't learned about it and the ease of using it and the performance of using it I would have never picked up a muzzleloader, for me personally shooting black powder or tablets shooting once or twice swabbing in between and then breaking the whole gun down to clean ,,I'm sorry I would have no part of that, no offense to you that shoot it,, there's a lot of information on black horn powder read and then keep reading,,and I know you can talk to a lot of people here that have shot a lot more pounds of blackhorn than me, good luck, learn to shoot the recoil of your rifle when you get it also, and be patient with that aspect,I've seen a lot of people that had an accurate muzzleloader inline CVA traditions etc,, they quite honestly just couldn't shoot the gun,, there's a lot I could say about the different recoil signatures of different muzzleloaders, I'll just say this today ,the recoil signature of the light weight in line 50 cal as experienced by the shooter is longer than the sharp crisp recoil of a centerfire rifle, instead of recoil straight back in a sharp line they jump and come back, stay tight shoulder and follow through,,,, maybe that's a topic for another time but for me being a little man how I manage recoil is very important but I've seen a lot of big man that couldn't handle it too.

The answer to recoil is a Kick--eze recoil pad . The angle a pad sits on the gun also makes a Tremendous difference on How a gun recoils . Whether the muzzle jumps Way Up etc . Do some research and youll likely conquer this issue .

 

[Mnt monkey]

Funny how each of us reacts to recoil differently, for me it's not a pain issue of the stock hitting my shoulder and causing pain,, what aggravates me is the actual motion of the recoil ,,I find my brain like a computer reacting to it without me being able to control that, I guess to illustrate that I could literally take the recoil pad off a heavy recoil gun and just hold it tight against my shoulder and roll with the recoil and it won't hurt me,, it's controlling my natural instinct 2 recoil back with the recoil that I try to control if that sounds confusing I'm sorry I don't know how else to explain it,, I often will shoot one of my lite kicking centerfire rifles while I'm shooting my muzzleloader a 22 creedmoor etc just to try in my mind I'll go from heavy recoil to no recoil back to heavy recoil all in the same session

 

[Sideshow]

Funny how each of us reacts to recoil differently, for me it's not a pain issue of the stock hitting my shoulder and causing pain,, what aggravates me is the actual motion of the recoil ,,I find my brain like a computer reacting to it without me being able to control that, I guess to illustrate that I could literally take the recoil pad off a heavy recoil gun and just hold it tight against my shoulder and roll with the recoil and it won't hurt me,, it's controlling my natural instinct 2 recoil back with the recoil that I try to control if that sounds confusing I'm sorry I don't know how else to explain it,, I often will shoot one of my lite kicking centerfire rifles while I'm shooting my muzzleloader a 22 creedmoor etc just to try in my mind I'll go from heavy recoil to no recoil back to heavy recoil all in the same session

I get what youre saying . Its about the guns "manners" during recoil . Thats what i addressed with the angle of pad/stock mounting . Much to be gained there .

 

[Mnt monkey]

The most accurate rifle I have purchase off the factory floor the last 10 years has been a $250 CVA Hunter 45-70 that rifle weighed 6 1/2 pounds I never weighed it with the scope,, the recoil was brutal,, it help me with my muzzleloaders,, I got to where I could shoot quarter inch groups with that rifle almost every time I sat down with it,, made my muzzleloaders feel like shooting a 22 wish I hadn't sold the rifle

 

[Sideshow]

The most accurate rifle I have purchase off the factory floor the last 10 years has been a $250 CVA Hunter 45-70 that rifle weighed 6 1/2 pounds I never weighed it with the scope,, the recoil was brutal,, it help me with my muzzleloaders,, I got to where I could shoot quarter inch groups with that rifle almost every time I sat down with it,, made my muzzleloaders feel like shooting a 22 wish I hadn't sold the rifle

I put the powder to em !!!! Why you think i said kick--eze !!! Lol !!! I got an under 7 lb scoped knight that i use 140grV of bh209 in --- BELIEVE ME i GET IT !!!! LMAO !!!!

 

[Sideshow]

I put the powder to em !!!! Why you think i said kick--eze !!! Lol !!! I got an under 7 lb scoped knight that i use 140grV of bh209 in --- BELIEVE ME i GET IT !!!! LMAO !!!!

My cf switch barrel rig is light too . A 300 win mag , 180gr @3150 (right with a 300 rum ) and a 45 Raptor , 275 gr @2945 fps . You can believe its got a kick--eze on there too , the safari magnum job . Nothin Better !!!!!
Ok back to topic......

 

[Mnt monkey]

Gun freak,, one to another

 

[GM54-120]

Thanks to everyone.

odd no one mentioned any other brand.

I have a fairly old CVA Hunter bolt. The one thing I did. It like about it was that the rifling went all the way to the end of the barrel making it a little difficult to stay the sabot only the barrel. I think those type barrels are a thing of the past now.

Your original post was for rifles under $500 and you missed the Knight Extreme sale at $499. Under $500 you got 3 main choices, CVA, TC Impact SB and a Knight Vision. At that price point CVA simply offers more such as SS and nitride. Plus you can get into a rifle that wont weigh a ton. The CVA Optima SS/nitride comes in well under your price point even with the addition of a breach plug.

 

[D55]

The freaks

Gun freak,, one to another

are the ones without guns.

 

[Sideshow]

The freaks

are the ones without guns.

AMEN !!!!!

 

[wolfer]

To address the op original post. Best buy for under 5C, 50 cal and since didn't mention SML it's smokers!

1. Well personally I'd advise go with a White Rifle!!! Most any White is capable of shooting very accurately over some distance for a smoker. And taking anything that walks in North America, including bears.

2. Next choice would be a Knight of your fancy. They have quality throughout their models. Also capable of taking big game with proper bullets.

3. Then you can explore the TC line. System 1 or Black Diamond just fine. Then the Encore offerings. Again bullets the deal for big animals.

For price and quality these rifles are not to be beat. Most of the new offerings are OK but you are paying for some questionable manufacturing and design items that aren't worth the cost. If you are going to shoot smokers go with well proven items.

There are others like the used Remington 700ML and Ruger 77/50 that have value but to get real use and worth they have to have been properly cared for and you will have to dump another 2C of parts and work into them, ie.. Hunter bolt nose and proper breech plug, but you will have a 800 to 1000$ gun that is well worth the outlay.

Patience and insight into worth and value will stand you good stead. Have your $ ready and when you find value pull it in.

My experience and opinion, others will differ. W

 

[michiganmuzzy]

There are others like the used Remington 700ML and Ruger 77/50 that have value but to get real use and worth they have to have been properly cared for and you will have to dump another 2C of parts and work into them, ie.. Hunter bolt nose and proper breech plug, but you will have a 800 to 1000$ gun that is well worth the outlay.

I wish Ruger hadn't stopped making black powder guns.
The old army is the greatest bp revolver ever made and the 77/50 had so much potential. Could have rivaled the 700, imo.

 

[Sideshow]

I wish Ruger hadn't stopped making black powder guns.
The old army is the greatest bp revolver ever made and the 77/50 had so much potential. Could have rivaled the 700, imo.

Badger ridge has a kit for the Ruger .

 

[BadgerRidge]

Wolfer wrote: "There are others like the used Remington 700ML and Ruger 77/50 that have value but to get real use and worth they have to have been properly cared for and you will have to dump another 2C of parts and work into them, ie.. Hunter bolt nose and proper breech plug, but you will have a 800 to 1000$ gun that is well worth the outlay."

I agree. And shopping for a REMINGTON 700 MLS is where I would begin, over the other offerings. But I am biased in my preference from getting started with a Remington almost 20 yrs ago, and I do sell the conversion kits. But I've found these rifles to be great value when Converted with the Hunter kit.

If you find a stainless Remington 700 MLS in good shape & at a fair price they are very hard to beat once converted. Ruger 77/50s are nice too, but most folks want more $ for them than a Remington.

 

[GM54-120]

The Ruger actually has locking lugs but has far fewer aftermarket parts that will fit it. Once upgraded the old Rem700 is pretty good if you dont mind the weight. After market stuff for a Rem700SA that will fit the Rem700ML is massive. Stocks, triggers, scope bases and even 45cal barrels just to name a few.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The Ruger actually has locking lugs but has far fewer aftermarket parts that will fit it. Once upgraded the old Rem700 is pretty good if you dont mind the weight. After market stuff for a Rem700SA that will fit the Rem700ML is massive. Stocks, triggers, scope bases and even 45cal barrels just to name a few.

Yes its a great gun with lots of options. But, imo, the 77 is a better gun and IF they had stayed in the game till aftermarket started producing stuff for it, it would give the Rem a serious run.

 

[Sideshow]

Yes its a great gun with lots of options. But, imo, the 77 is a better gun and IF they had stayed in the game till aftermarket started producing stuff for it, it would give the Rem a serious run.

Ive never seen a used one for sale . Ruger does make well made stuff though . Badger Ridge converts them for 209 muzzy .

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I luv all things Ruger.

 

[BadgerRidge]

Yes its a great gun with lots of options. But, imo, the 77 is a better gun and IF they had stayed in the game till aftermarket started producing stuff for it, it would give the Rem a serious run.

Yes, and regardless, the 700ML was first and had beaten most others of the time including the Ruger which arrived after the Remington (if you judge by volume produced and sold) but all the center fire mods lost ground quick to the better designed Savage 10Ml-II. Which explains why the Badger Ridge conversions for the Remington 700 ML and the Ruger 77/50 barrow a lot from the out of production Savage.

And I hope this takes us full circle back to the original post's question: if you can find a Remington 700 ML or better a MLS in good condition for a fair price and convert it, you can have a great muzzle loader at a bargain.

The Ruger 77/50 essentially needs the conversion too, is a lighter shorter barreled more handy rifle, there were less made, and most folks want a lot more for them... Plus the conversion is more complex and expensive.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Yes, and regardless, the 700ML was first and had beaten most others of the time including the Ruger which arrived after the Remington (if you judge by volume produced and sold) but all the center fire mods lost ground quick to the better designed Savage 10Ml-II. Which explains why the Badger Ridge conversions for the Remington 700 ML and the Ruger 77/50 barrow a lot from the out of production Savage.

And I hope this takes us full circle back to the original post's question: if you can find a Remington 700 ML or better a MLS in good condition for a fair price and convert it, you can have a great muzzle loader at a bargain.

The Ruger 77/50 essentially needs the conversion too, is a lighter shorter barreled more handy rifle, there were less made, and most folks want a lot more for them... Plus the conversion is more complex and expensive.

All that is why, in the end, i will build an SML out of a 700. But i will always prefer a Ruger.