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A search for Triple 8 doesn't really turn up much, but I did find an article about the NitroFire from American Rifleman. Towards the bottom of the article it says to click on the link to learn more about Hodgdon's new Triple 8 powder. Clicking the link just takes you to their site but can't find anything new about it. My guess is that once they release it at SHOT there will be a lot more information available about it. The American Rifle article only references that it's a new, clean burning powder. So maybe there's still hope.
 
(Long-Winded Diatribe Alert)

Of course I don't have the complete dimensions of the Federal Fiddlestick, but other than rim thickness, it looks like you could ream out that projectile ledge and you'd just about have a .50-110 Sharps rifle.

18 U.S.C. § 921's definitions don't seem to either fully include nor exclude this system as an "antique or antique replica," which is one of several filters it would have to pass in order to be a non-4473 arm - so it looks like ATFE is playing it safe and calling it a Firearm. But I remember that around 1998 they made the same classification on Knight's DISC system, so Traditions might have to sue and appeal (and appeal and appeal) if they want to peddle these things at retailers that don't have the proper FFL class and data & security systems to stock "firearms" and/or do Insta-Checks. If I recall correctly, in that case Knight and supporters successfully got language into an appropriations bill that amended the definition of "antique firearm" to include Knight's DISC system from the previous language of the 1968 GCA - and that happened under the Clinton Administration after the 1994 AWB and subsequent Republican majority transitions in both Houses. Thus, NitroFire might actually have had better luck under the Obama Administration's DOJ and BATFE leadership, who signed off on bump stocks and AR pistol "wrist braces" as Good To Go without NFA issues.

On that note - the deeranddeerhunting.com article states that the NitroFire can be purchased "Anywhere Traditions Firearms muzzleloading rifles are sold." They're a little bit ahead of themselves. There were a few blued Buckstalker and Tracker blister packs at my local Farm & Fleet store yesterday when I was out buying more sidewalk salt, but they will not be able to stock or sell/transfer the NitroFire as it is currently classified.

I guess I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I enjoy living in this golden age of firearms and shooting sports equipment innovations, and wouldn't want to step on anybody's freedom. Since it's a "Form 4473" gun, I don't anticipate enough of these things hitting the woods to make Iowa's muzzleloading season woods any more crowded. Our Iowa Early ML season limits to 7,500 tags statewide anyway, and the late season tends to be at the time of year during which we usually see Arctic Blasts arrive - so those using "lazy people's" muzzleloading systems are either disinclined to endure the weather, or are at least paying their dues through other forms of suffering not related to the convenience of use built into their guns. And I do like the safety aspect of being able to extract both primer and powder charge for transport.

But on the other hand, as the deeranddeerhunting.com article states, "Hunting white-tailed deer during muzzleloader-only season is typically a way to spend more time in the field for a rifle or shotgun hunter. However, antique firearms and even modern inline muzzleloaders do have their frustrations and limitations. So much so, that the hassle of operating them can be a deterrent for some hunters and can be considered a barrier to enter the sport." Therefore any system that eliminates the "hassle of operating" deterrent, seems likely to invite more lazy hunters into the woods - during seasons specifically set aside for those who are willing to accept such "hassles" in return for a chance to hunt (at least in Iowa) without .450 Bushmaster ARs and autoloading slug-barreled shotguns going off from every third tree in the county, like our gun seasons have become on public land. Were it not for Iowa's ML seasons being limited as they are, I'm sure I would have given up deer hunting entirely by now since I'm not connected to any landowners who haven't already leased out hunting rights beyond the reach of my disposable income. Thus, I'm cautious not to cheer too loudly for new ideas until I'm somewhat certain it won't quickly push hunting one more step back toward being "the sport of kings" rather than the pastime of any interested, law-abiding, tax-paying Everyman. And I think in the case of NitroFire and Federal Premium Fiddlesticks, that remains to be seen.

I have spoken.
 
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(Long-Winded Diatribe Alert)

Of course I don't have the complete dimensions of the Federal Fiddlestick, but other than rim thickness, it looks like you could ream out that projectile ledge and you'd just about have a .50-110 Sharps rifle.

18 U.S.C. § 921's definitions don't seem to either fully include nor exclude this system as an "antique or antique replica," which is one of several filters it would have to pass in order to be a non-4473 arm - so it looks like ATFE is playing it safe and calling it a Firearm. But I remember that around 1998 they made the same classification on Knight's DISC system, so Traditions might have to sue and appeal (and appeal and appeal) if they want to peddle these things at retailers that don't have the proper FFL class and data & security systems to stock "firearms" and/or do Insta-Checks. If I recall correctly, in that case Knight and supporters successfully got language into an appropriations bill that amended the definition of "antique firearm" to include Knight's DISC system from the previous language of the 1968 GCA - and that happened under the Clinton Administration after the 1994 AWB and subsequent Republican majority transitions in both Houses. Thus, NitroFire might actually have had better luck under the Obama Administration's DOJ and BATFE leadership, who signed off on bump stocks and AR pistol "wrist braces" as Good To Go without NFA issues.

On that note - the deeranddeerhunting.com article states that the NitroFire can be purchased "Anywhere Traditions Firearms muzzleloading rifles are sold." They're a little bit ahead of themselves. There were a few blued Buckstalker and Tracker blister packs at my local Farm & Fleet store yesterday when I was out buying more sidewalk salt, but they will not be able to stock or sell/transfer the NitroFire as it is currently classified.

I guess I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I enjoy living in this golden age of firearms and shooting sports equipment innovations, and wouldn't want to step on anybody's freedom. Since it's a "Form 4473" gun, I don't anticipate enough of these things hitting the woods to make Iowa's muzzleloading season woods any more crowded. Our Iowa Early ML season limits to 7,500 tags statewide anyway, and the late season tends to be at the time of year during which we usually see Arctic Blasts arrive - so those using "lazy people's" muzzleloading systems are either disinclined to endure the weather, or are at least paying their dues through other forms of suffering not related to the convenience of use built into their guns. And I do like the safety aspect of being able to extract both primer and powder charge for transport.

But on the other hand, as the deeranddeerhunting.com article states, "Hunting white-tailed deer during muzzleloader-only season is typically a way to spend more time in the field for a rifle or shotgun hunter. However, antique firearms and even modern inline muzzleloaders do have their frustrations and limitations. So much so, that the hassle of operating them can be a deterrent for some hunters and can be considered a barrier to enter the sport." Therefore any system that eliminates the "hassle of operating" deterrent, seems likely to invite more lazy hunters into the woods - during seasons specifically set aside for those who are willing to accept such "hassles" in return for a chance to hunt (at least in Iowa) without .450 Bushmaster ARs and autoloading slug-barreled shotguns going off from every third tree in the county, like our gun seasons have become on public land. Were it not for Iowa's ML seasons being limited as they are, I'm sure I would have given up deer hunting entirely by now since I'm not connected to any landowners who haven't already leased out hunting rights beyond the reach of my disposable income. Thus, I'm cautious not to cheer too loudly for new ideas until I'm somewhat certain it won't quickly push hunting one more step back toward being "the sport of kings" rather than the pastime of any interested, law-abiding, tax-paying Everyman. And I think in the case of NitroFire and Federal Premium Fiddlesticks, that remains to be seen.

I have spoken.
I still like "Fiddlesticks"......Lol !!!!!
 
This gun is a joke as far as muzzleloaders are concerned. But all that said I'm really hoping that Triple 8 is a new powder and they're using this to launch it. My thought is that someone at least as smart as me (which isn't saying too much) is running Hodgdon and would have the foresight to realize that this firestick is going to fall flat on it's face. There's no way they would put that much time into developing and branding a powder that can only be used in one gun that few will buy. Hopefully this new improved powder will still be released at SHOT and then we'll actually have something interesting to talk about.
What if they combine it with the silencerco? Two winners in one. That would be a bit interesting. Im really just interested in the t8 too tho
 
Not much smoke coming out of the barrel in the vids. I wonder what material is used in the action? Stainless steel? Alloy? I wouldn't want anything less than solid steel in that setup.
 
Not much smoke coming out of the barrel in the vids. I wonder what material is used in the action? Stainless steel? Alloy? I wouldn't want anything less than solid steel in that setup.

Sounded like steel in the video. it's probably the same action as their center fire rifles, thus the 4473 requirement?

Listen at 0:36 to 0:37 in this video. Steel! Albeit cast, probably investment cast?

 
Sounded like steel in the video. it's probably the same action as their center fire rifles, thus the 4473 requirement?

Listen at 0:36 to 0:37 in this video. Steel! Albeit cast, probably investment cast?


Make a duplicate metal case to hold a 50 bullet ,remove that shelf ,give it a throat and its a centerfire . Thats why a 4473 .
 
Make a duplicate metal case to hold a 50 bullet ,remove that shelf ,give it a throat and its a centerfire . Thats why a 4473 .

Did you look at the rim thickness on the polymer case? And the chamber in the barrel?

DSC_6720-1024x683~3.jpg


The receivers/frames are what makes them Form 4473, if the center fire barrels are lugged the same.
 
Did you look at the rim thickness on the polymer case? And the chamber in the barrel?

View attachment 7227


The receivers/frames are what makes them Form 4473, if the center fire barrels are lugged the same.
Could be but barrel mods alone should qualify this one id say . Its really not a mz now .
 
Did you look at the rim thickness on the polymer case? And the chamber in the barrel?

View attachment 7227


The receivers/frames are what makes them Form 4473, if the center fire barrels are lugged the same.

Lugs... okay, I think I get it now. I wasn't previously aware Traditions made centerfire rifles. So, kinda like H&R SB1 vs. SB2 frames/lugs, or Encore vs. ProHunter FX? I'm probably using the wrong names & terms here but I believe I understand that there is a difference between a Sidekick and a Topper, and between the FX and a standard Encore.

I don't really know the history on H&R frames/lugs, I've just heard those SB numbers thrown around before. I bought a Sidekick about 12 years ago & remember being uncertain how they could ship a Topper-type frame to my front door, until a friend explained that either the hinge pin was at a different distance or the lugs were different, or something like that, so that centerfire accessory barrels wouldn't mate to the receiver.
 
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Lugs... okay, I think I get it now. I wasn't previously aware Traditions made centerfire rifles. So, kinda like H&R CB1 vs. CB2 frames/lugs, or Encore vs. ProHunter FX?

Yes. The frames have the serial number filed on the 4473. The barrels can be traded/sold without paperwork.

Probably the same receiver/frame as the Outfitter G2? Yeah, they make a bunch of center fires, and the Crackshot rimfire and arrow launcher.

Outfitter G2 Center Fires with Lothar Walther Barrels.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/outfitter-g2


Rimfires.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/crackshot


Arrow Launcher.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/Crackshot-xbr-arrow-launching-rifle
 
I'd sure like to know what kind of nightmare I'd have trying to explain that arrow launching rig to our local game wardens. Me thinks I'll not touch it, much like this new rifle and the new powder. Happy where I'm at with bh209 and guns that are guns.
 
What if they combine it with the silencerco? Two winners in one. That would be a bit interesting. Im really just interested in the t8 too tho
:elmer::woohoo::snipe:
I would seriously want a pair of bandoleers full of those Fiddlesticks to go with that rig, worn cross-body a la Pancho Villa. I'd put them on before I even left my house for the range or woods. (Maybe even before I'd put on my underwear; I could even test the Fiddlestick seals by wearing them in the shower.) I'd want them in Muddy Girl camo, mind you - Safety First.
 
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Yes. The frames have the serial number filed on the 4473. The barrels can be traded/sold without paperwork.

Probably the same receiver/frame as the Outfitter G2? Yeah, they make a bunch of center fires, and the Crackshot rimfire and arrow launcher.

Outfitter G2 Center Fires with Lothar Walther Barrels.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/outfitter-g2


Rimfires.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/crackshot


Arrow Launcher.
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/Crackshot-xbr-arrow-launching-rifle
Wow… if you'd just posted a picture of that Crapshot arrow launcher instead of the actual manufacturer's link, I'd swear you were pulling my leg via Photoshop. The Crackpot rimfire version looks ungainly as well, though at least the concept seems useful. I'm all for innovation, but... Wow. Just Wow.
 
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I gotta get off of this thread now. Starting to wonder if I'm having a reaction to my new meds and just imagining all of this. But if this thread's still here when I log on tomorrow, I'll know it wasn't just a weird half-awake dream.
 
Lugs... okay, I think I get it now. I wasn't previously aware Traditions made centerfire rifles. So, kinda like H&R SB1 vs. SB2 frames/lugs, or Encore vs. ProHunter FX? I'm probably using the wrong names & terms here but I believe I understand that there is a difference between a Sidekick and a Topper, and between the FX and a standard Encore.

I don't really know the history on H&R frames/lugs, I've just heard those SB numbers thrown around before. I bought a Sidekick about 12 years ago & remember being uncertain how they could ship a Topper-type frame to my front door, until a friend explained that either the hinge pin was at a different distance or the lugs were different, or something like that, so that centerfire accessory barrels wouldn't mate to the receiver.

Yeah a the Sidekicks have a shorter frame from the Standing Breech to the Hinge pin, with a narrower lug. The 2002 and Newer Huntsman's use a SB1 Receiver, capable of accepting Center Fire and Shotgun Barrels. The SB2 Receivers are for the Center Fire rifle barrels.

Old 10 -12 year old pics from file.

Huntsman SB1 Receiver on top, Sidekick on bottom. Note distances from standing breech to hinge pins.
007-3.jpg 013-2.jpg


Huntsman lug width. After range sessions. Note o-ring in second pic.
031.jpg 100_2931.jpg

Sidekick lug width. After 12 primers and 38 shot range session. Note o-ring.
028 (6).jpg


Huntsman
013 (2).jpg 083.jpg 090.jpg


Sidekick
022 (8).jpg 315.jpg
 
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I think they might be a little over optimistic.

......"Traditions company, it will have no legal problems at all in all but “about 10 states.” Traditions is in contact with the legislative activists and regulatory agencies in those states to hopefully overcome these obstacles."......

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...-change-muzzleloading-forever-shot-show-2020/

I thought they were going to shoot it. Nope!




The 100 grain Volumetric equivalent charge is orange, the 120 grain Volumetric change is red.

Found a video where it was shot.

 
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One more company that is trying a proprietary system. There have been a number of others that have tried and failed. I'm sure there will be a few that will drink the coolaid and buy, but down the road when they don't sell enough rifles to support making the Fiddlesticks, those people will be SOL.

With that being said, I'm sure Michigan will allow them. Michigan will allow anything, guns, bows, spears, blowgun, knife in teeth. MDNR wants all the deer dead.
 

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