Hodgdon

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
nope , what i was trying to say is i could use my 45-70 and by their standard declare either way,

nope
On its(traditions) interior dimensions that looks something like a bottle necked cartridge with an oversized bore . Like a DeLaval Constriction where that shelf is . I wonder WHY its not bulging the barrel ??? Its always been my understanding with black or subs you CANT do that !!! A high pressure area is created a couple of inches ahead of the constriction that rings barrels badly and is very unsafe !!! That powder must have been engineered just for this use !!! There is no other way . It sure isnt bussiness as usual to have this constriction operational . THIS IS A BIG DEAL !!!!!!! IF tbey sell this stuff loose the same bottle neck principles could be used instead of the straight walled style powder area we have now . Swinglock mz's are made this way !!!! The powder is the KEY !!!!!

Pay attention to what ive just told you . You cant do this with blackhorn !!!!
 
I just emailed Hodgden, Rep answered and claimed they don't make a Triple 8 muzzleloading powder. Jumped the gun I guess, time will tell. Might be an exclusive for Federal and the Firestick.
I'm not interested in the proprietary rifle or firestick. Competition to Blackhorn 209 might be interesting.
 
Traditions claims in the video they worked with Federal and Hodgdon to make the "sticks". They give credit to Hodgdon for the powder so the rep is either uniformed or keeping his mouth shut.

I guess the other possibility is they dont make it....Its just BH209 rebranded under a license agreement. After seeing videos of the firing, it appeared to have even less smoke than BH209 so i think that is unlikely.
 
Traditions claims in the video they worked with Federal and Hodgdon to make the "sticks". They give credit to Hodgdon for the powder so the rep is either uniformed or keeping his mouth shut.

I guess the other possibility is they dont make it....Its just BH209 rebranded under a license agreement. After seeing videos of the firing, it appeared to have even less smoke than BH209 so i think that is unlikely.
Blackhorn and the DeLaval Constriction that is there in that barrel wont mix .
 
One more company that is trying a proprietary system. There have been a number of others that have tried and failed. I'm sure there will be a few that will drink the coolaid and buy, but down the road when they don't sell enough rifles to support making the Fiddlesticks, those people will be SOL.

With that being said, I'm sure Michigan will allow them. Michigan will allow anything, guns, bows, spears, blowgun, knife in teeth. MDNR wants all the deer dead.
They don't allow smokeless muzzleloaders though.
 
This is interesting but with the primer that close to the powder it should not matter anyway. Any primer should ignite it.

What primers are recommended to be used with the FireStick?
Ignition is important in muzzleloading. That’s why Federal Premium developed the 209 Muzzleloading Primers, Part No. PMZ209. The formulation provides superior resistance to moisture, as well as hot, reliable ignition of both granulated powder and pellets in any conditions. The design reduces the excessive breech fouling — also known as a “crud ring” — typical of standard shotshell primers. They are sold in 100-count packs. However, any brand of muzzleloader-specific or 209 type primers could work with the FireStick system.

Well it does not appear to be T7 but they keep mentioning the crud ring.

The new Hodgdon Triple 8 powder burns very efficiently and greatly reduces the amount of unburnt powder and residue in the barrels. Due to powder being in the capsule, there is no powder touching and igniting directly inside of the barrel. The bullet seats on the bullet shelf, not on top of powder. All this means the FireStick system generally reduces the traditional “powder ring” black powder shooters have come to recognize in the barrel after repeated firings. A powder ring left unclean can lead to barrel corrosion. With the FireStick, there is less or no powder ring to clean, so risk of barrel corrosion is also less.

The new Hodgdon Triple 8 is not designed for water-based clean-up. Using a cleaning solvent provides an effective and efficient job cleaning.
 
I gotta get off of this thread now. Starting to wonder if I'm having a reaction to my new meds and just imagining all of this. But if this thread's still here when I log on tomorrow, I'll know it wasn't just a weird half-awake dream.
Yes please go take a nap. I have to figure out how to get the image of you in the shower with a bandolier full of pink camo fiddlesticks outta my head. Thx fer that.
 
I think they might be a little over optimistic.

......"Traditions company, it will have no legal problems at all in all but “about 10 states.” Traditions is in contact with the legislative activists and regulatory agencies in those states to hopefully overcome these obstacles."......

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...-change-muzzleloading-forever-shot-show-2020/

I thought they were going to shoot it. Nope!




The 100 grain Volumetric equivalent charge is orange, the 120 grain Volumetric change is red.

Found a video where it was shot.


Busta, thanks for posting that; wondering if there are some independent range test videos coming soon as well, since nothing put out so far shows any evidence about how this system groups. All my groaning about the Fiddlesticks aside, though, that miniscule puff of smoke in the second video you posted further piques my interest in the Hodgdon Triple 8 propellant. Let me be clear: Triple 8 interests me, NOT Federal's Fiddlesticks nor Traditions' HermaphroditroFire rifle.

Big question in my mind is: Is the charge of Triple 8 inside that red Fiddlestick actually 120 grains by volume, or is it some other volume that their testing has shown to duplicate (or at least very nearly approximate) the muzzle velocity of 120 grains by volume of black powder or some other common substitute? If the latter is the case, then we might not see this powder sold in loose form, rather only in their hermetically sealed-at-factory Fiddlesticks.

But if it measures the same as other BP subs, and Hodgdon publishes some assurance that pressure peaks don't exceed the same measures of T7 or BH209, and I can get a trial sized quantity for <=$2/shot, it'll have my interest. Otherwise, none for me, thanks. BH209 runs about a dollar a shot for me and meets my inline needs quite nicely. They'll likely publicize this whiz-bang new T8 propellant as such a leap over Blackhorn that it'll sell too high to press Western into stabilizing BH209 shelf prices, so even that hook seems too weak to hang big bags of hope on. And I say that as a loyal, satisfied Hodgdon user for nearly 40 years in shotshell and CF rifle/handgun reloading, having rarely seen Hodgdon fail to substantially meet their advertised claims with new products.
 
On its(traditions) interior dimensions that looks something like a bottle necked cartridge with an oversized bore . Like a DeLaval Constriction where that shelf is . I wonder WHY its not bulging the barrel ??? Its always been my understanding with black or subs you CANT do that !!! A high pressure area is created a couple of inches ahead of the constriction that rings barrels badly and is very unsafe !!! That powder must have been engineered just for this use !!! There is no other way . It sure isnt bussiness as usual to have this constriction operational . THIS IS A BIG DEAL !!!!!!! IF tbey sell this stuff loose the same bottle neck principles could be used instead of the straight walled style powder area we have now . Swinglock mz's are made this way !!!! The powder is the KEY !!!!!

Pay attention to what ive just told you . You cant do this with blackhorn !!!!
Guessing that the portion of the "hull" mouth comprising the roll crimp, unrolls to the rear face of that shelf and creates a consistent "chamber" diameter until expanding in the beginning of the rifled bore against the projectile's base, rather than allowing the expanding gases to run up against any inflexible constrictions in diameter. Just a theory. :think:

(For something almost none of us want to say we would ever buy, this system sure is stimulating some interesting technical conversation and SWAGs!)
 
Last edited:
Guessing that the portion of the "hull" mouth comprising the roll crimp, unrolls to the rear face of that shelf and creates a consistent "chamber" diameter until expanding in the beginning of the rifled bore against the projectile's base, rather than allowing the expanding gases to run up against any inflexible constrictions in diameter. Just a theory. :think:

(For something almost none of us want to say we would ever buy, this system sure is stimulating some interesting technical conversation and SWAGs!)
I’ve read a bunch of posts about it on FB and there’s no shortage of folks there saying they’d buy one if it’s legal to use in their state. Somewhere I saw something from Traditions that they believe that’s it’s legal in all but “about 10 states”, which seems over optimistic to me. I guess time will tell.
 
What small fact I am waiting to hear is: Does it have to be ignited with a 209 and/or could a Percussion Cap ignite it? I would think that alone will tell you a lot about the composition of the powder?
 
What small fact I am waiting to hear is: Does it have to be ignited with a 209 and/or could a Percussion Cap ignite it? I would think that alone will tell you a lot about the composition of the powder?

In one breath they claim a Fed MZ primer is recommended and in another breath they say to NOT use water based cleaners. They say to use powder solvents. That is a huge clue right there about composition.
 
The rifle itself named
"NITROFIRE" should be enough of a clue. It's obviously nitro based, but that doesn't mean it's classified as smokeless. Just nitro based. I'm pretty sure if Hodgdon is going to offer it in loose powder form, they made sure it would be classified as a black powder substitute.
 
In one breath they claim a Fed MZ primer is recommended and in another breath they say to NOT use water based cleaners. They say to use powder solvents. That is a huge clue right there about composition.

See that does say a lot!!! Tom must have misread it - he said it said 'water cleanup

And Busta points another good point 'NITROFIRE"
 
Back
Top