Home cast slugs

[Sideshow]

Here’s some food for thought on Lead Hardness and Target Shooting

Look in to BPCR Shooters, These Guy’s compete out to 1,000, 1,200 Yards, look at the Score Cards, Some will Show Their loads, even the lead they used, Look at their Lead, Take note of how many of these Guy’s you see using Pure Soft Lead? You will find VERY FEW Guy’s that use Pure Lead, The Majority will be using an Alloy, 1-20 is EXTREMELY popular with these Guy’s, even 1-16, Why do the Majority of these Guy’s insist on using an Alloy? There must be a Reason right? Think about it, These Guy’s can use ANY Lead they want, and Most choose an Alloy. With a VERY Recent World Championship on the Line, What do you Think WINNER Dave Gullo was using for Lead? Anyone wanna bet it wasn’t Pure Soft Lead?

I believe the reason for the Above to be the Design of the Bullets they use (Elliptical, Money, Prolate, Etc.) I have read and Looked at some CRAZY Photos of Recovered Bullets at 1,000 Yards and Beyond that Were Supposedly Shot in Soft Deep Snow Drifts and Recovered the Following Spring, Many of the Noses of the Softer Bullets were “Bent” Referred to as “Nose Slump” This is Controversial, There’s Been plenty of Arguments about it, Some say NO WAY, Others SWEAR it happens. I don’t personally know? One thing for sure, The Bullet DEFINITELY Changes Form when Fired, “Bumped up” to fill the Grooves, Can a BIG LOOOONG Sleek Nose Bullet Such as a “Money” Made of PURE SOFT LEAD, have the Nose Slump over when Fired? I believe it’s VERY VERY Plausible

Here is a post from “Distant Thunder’s” Jim Kluskens
“Shooting a well fitting bore diameter paper patched bullet that is seated as much as possible up in the rifling eliminates the alignment question and 16:1 hardness got rid of my unexplained fliers whether it was nose slumping or whatever. Don't care, I just go with what works in my rifle”

Here is a Pic I found in a Quick Search of the Subject, This is NOT MY PHOTO. This bullet nose is Definitely “Slumped” Bent to the Left

What i can say for a FACT is, Some of the absolute BEST Groups i have EVER Shot have been with a Harder Bullet, From my Beginning in Muzzleloading, 90% or more of my TIP TOP Groups were Shot with an Alloy. BUT, i have also shot some Great Groups with Pure Soft Lead as well. From my hands on experience, I give the Harder Bullet the Edge in Accuracy. Some of this Depends on the Rifle, As I mentioned my Old Stainless .50 Cal GM LRH Barrel Above, Pure Soft Lead was NOT an Option with that Barrel, But Put a Harder Bullet in it and that Barrel would COME ALIVE!!

With the above Said, I have Switched to PURE Soft Lead For ALL my Hunting Bullets in the Rifles i own that will Shoot Soft lead Well, And Hold in my Bores without fear of Slipping off the Powder Charge (Some Won’t hold a Soft lead Bullet well) In these few Rifles i have No Choice but to use a little Harder bullet so they will Hold the Bore Snug.

Why the Change to Pure Lead? Pure Soft Lead Simply performs better in Recovery Tests i have personally Done, Ron L Tests Show this CLEARLY as well. I have Recovered Several 1:30 Alloy Bullets in Soft Dirt That Didn’t do much at all, For Hunting I want a Bullet to Mushroom, ROLL Back in a Ball. For Targets, I don’t care what they do as long as the Holes are touching

I am Currently Running 3 Seperate lead Pots, Pure Soft Lead, 1-40 Alloy, and 1-20, Each of These Pots are SPECIFIC and ONLY get Certified Lead/Alloy, I get it Buffalo Arms, i have tested each SEVERAL times with my Cabin Tree Lead Hardness Tester and get the SAME Result each time, The Pure Lead, and Alloy i get from BACO is VERY Consistent

I invite each and everyone of you to Play Around with an Alloy of Say 1-20, 1-30, VS Pure Soft Lead, Poured from the Same Bullet Mold Of Course. See if you can tell a Difference? I just don’t believe the Harder Bullet is a Great Option on Game, They are gonna Poke a Smaller Hole Straight Through.

Most everyone knows that i am a BIG BACO Fan (Buffalo Arms Co.) I live 20-30 minutes from them, and do 99% of my Business There. One thing i find a Bummer is Their Cast Bullets, Look at the Lead used, ALL 1-20 Alloy, i Feel that is WAY to Hard for a Hunting bullet, I wish they would offer Different Lead/Alloy Options in their Home Cast Bullet line. BACO doesn’t Cast Their own, they Get them from BitterRoot, i guess they Stil do? I quit paying attention to them.

What do you think ??? I dont have your experiance with the lead full bores . Sorry about multiple posts here and getting off subject a bit . Nasa lube will be tried i think . Need a proven lube .

 

[GM54-120]

If i get some bullets from Dan i was considering some 30-1 just for the Lee 405 HP mold but pure lead for his .451 420gr ML mold. Both sized to .452 actually just because i had such good luck with that in my tighter bores. Kinda strange 30-1 cost more than the same bullet in pure lead?

NASA lube or the mix Ed uses. Both are great with BH209 or Swiss.

 

[flounder]

NASA lube works great for me. I lube and then run them through an inexpensive Lee sizer. I have a few conicals that I shoot as cast, on these I cut a lane tube to the right length so it removes the excess lube without sizing the bullet. I just push them through with a pencil.
If you can cast them the right size without sizing that is best IMO.

 

[GM54-120]

NOE offers a sizer also with interchangeable "sizer bushings" but if you want to get serious the Swinlock or Hankins adjustable is the ticket.

$40 for the body, $7.50 for the push rod and $9.75 per bushing
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564_104&osCsid=9fj1d19a303qcmfh7h1h3dcgp0

 

[Idaholewis]

If i get some bullets from Dan i was considering some 30-1 just for the Lee 405 HP mold but pure lead for his .451 420gr ML mold. Both sized to .452 actually just because i had such good luck with that in my tighter bores. Kinda strange 30-1 cost more than the same bullet in pure lead?

NASA lube or the mix Ed uses. Both are great with BH209 or Swiss.

I just went and looked Bullshop up, I didn’t know that Dan offered Alloys? But he sure does, 20, and 30-1, That is Awesome that he Does I’ve sure had Good luck with the Alloys on Paper. I wish BACO Would Start offering some of their Cast Bullets in Pure Lead, Especially their Hunting Type Cast. Almost EVERYTHING in BACO’S Cast Bullet Selection is 1-20 Alloy, That’s AWESOME on Target (And probably why Dave Chooses it) But I personally don’t feel it to be a Good option for Hunting, 1-20 Alloy isn’t gonna Open up much, if ANY in Game. I feel Pure Lead would be a MUCH Better Choice on Game

Look through BACO’S Cast Bullet Line up here, Nearly Everything is 1-20 Alloy, Over 100 Different Bullets. I would love to see at least a Few of their Hunting Bullets offered in Pure lead
https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloadi...keted-lead-copper-coated-bullets/cast-bullets

The Casting Alloys Cost a Little More than Pure Lead at BACO as Well. Pure lead is 1.99 a Pound. 1-20 Alloy is 2.49 a Pound, and 1-30 is 2.29 a Pound

 

[GM54-120]

Lee no longer sells that mold. Seems to have been gone far ages too. My "theory" is the 30-1 with a HP will be fine at 1300fps-1400fps MV and might allow for a tiny bit more speed? When Ron was testing Ed's Gould HP at 80gr by volume that looked to me like the max that bullet was gunna handle. The 50gr load looked great though. Still had a nice shank left and a huge mushroom.

 

[sdporter]

I found if you live in a warmer climate bore butter works fine. But is you live in a colder weather bore butter gets very hard in a short time while hunting. I have two Whitelightings, my own bullets come out of the the mold at .504 and I resize them to .503. In one gun I can push them in with my thumb. The other gun I use the bullets not resized and they are so loose I use pink waterline tape on them.

I have the same issue between my whitetail and Super 91 in .504 . Whitetail is a blues barrel and it’s gotta be .504 the .5035 sized slugs fit great. My s91 is a stainless barrel. My mold drops at .508 to .5075 (I get both dimensions using a mic not calipers) and the slugs push in with my thumb and slide down well. P.M. me and I can send you 10 or so if you want to see how they fit.

 

[sdporter]

I pan lube in a shallow pyrex pan. I microwave the wax til it melts, set in the bullets, then put it in the freezer for an hour, then pop em out and size them. I can leave the wax at room temp to see how it will be in the summer or put it in the freezer to see how it will be in the winter and adjust the mix accordingly.

It is a little messy but cleans easy.

I’d have to leave it in the crockpot on low to see how it would be in the summer. 110 deg not uncommon in So Utah. Our muzzy hunt has temps still pushing mid 90’s some years, and archery.... it’s in August. Brutal.

 

[Sideshow]

I’d have to leave it in the crockpot on low to see how it would be in the summer. 110 deg not uncommon in So Utah. Our muzzy hunt has temps still pushing mid 90’s some years, and archery.... it’s in August. Brutal.

Wow you gotta be kiddin !!! That is insane !!!

 

[sdporter]

Lead hardness can MOST definitely make a Difference, a BIG DIFFERENCE! For example my Old Stainless 50 Cal Green Mountain LRH Barrel would NOT shoot a Pure lead bullet, Just wouldn’t do it! A pie plate Group was the Best i could expect from it. I tried a Group of Dan’s Bullshop 460 Grain Bullets in my Stainless 50, I only had 4 Bullets, After this 3 Shot Group i saved the 4th bullet so i could Send it to Accurate Bullet molds and have it Copied, I Contacted Bullshop Dan and Asked if he cared first? Just the Right thing to do

This is the 4 Original Bullshop 460s, This is all i had to test. These were Lubed with Dan’s NASA Lube.

This is the Group i shot with 3 of the Above Bullets, This was only 50 Yards, But this Barrel was EXTREMELY Finicky and i was simply Short Range Testing, I really didn’t expect much? I was EXTREMELY HAPPY after this Group, i knew the Rifle was gonna shoot these!

Fast forward, I talk to Dan and get permission to Copy his Bullet. I send the 4th Bullet (from above) to Accurate Bullet Molds and Have Tom Copy it as Close as he possibly could, He hit it SPOT ON! My Bands measure IDENTICAL to the Original, My new Bullet was a Clone of the Original

I get the new Mold and Immediately Start Casting with PURE PLUMBERS LEAD, i head out to test it, To my TOTAL SHOCK it Shot Like GARBAGE??? I shot a Typical Pie Plate Group again?? I contacted Bullshop Dan, I sent pictures of my New Bullets lubed, and asked if he had any idea what was Wrong? He IMMEDIATELY noticed my Bullet Lube was Different, Dan told me that Lube could Definitely make a HUGE Difference. My Lube was MUCH Stiffer than Bullshop’s NASA

This is not the Actual Target (I can’t find the Original Target?) But this how my New Bullshop Clone Shot, it was HORRIBLE!! But this was also TYPICAL of my Old Green Mountain Stainless 50 LRH, it was FINICKY.

It also Dawned on me to Ask Dan about his Lead? Did he use Pure Soft Lead? Or Slightly Hardened? Dan Explained to me that he got Pure lead from Plumbers, And that he also kept the Solder Joints, That Told me what i needed to Know The Solder Will Harden lead, This was back before i had my Cabin Tree Lead Hardness Tester, I often wish i had 1 of the Old Original Bullshop Bullets to Test it’s Hardness. Now remember My New Bullets Above That Shot SO HORRIBLE were Cast of PURE PLUMBERS LEAD. Dan didn’t think the Solder would effect the Hardness? I can tell you for SURE that it does

This is what i get with my Bullshop Clone Hardened, and my Own, Soft Home made Bullet Lube. This Target was Shot with my New Blued GM LRH Barrel, But i Shot SEVERAL Targets just like this with my Old Stainless 50, The ABSOLUTE Key with the Old Stainless Barrel was Lead Hardness, That Barrel would NOT shoot Soft Lead. My Blued Barrel will Shoot Either, Or equally Well.

What’s the (I assume) .30-06 case with the Allen wrench???

 

[Idaholewis]

What’s the (I assume) .30-06 case with the Allen wrench???

That is a .50 BMG Case that i made a “Cookie Cutter” out of For extracting .50 Cal Bullets from Lube after Pan Lubing. I have also seen Speed Loaders used, The Cartridge Case is kinda unique/Cool i guess? Either way serves the Same Purpose

 

[sdporter]

Wow you gotta be kiddin !!! That is insane !!!

Wow you gotta be kiddin !!! That is insane !!!

I wish I were, too damn hot to try and get a downed animal in and taken care of without losing half of it to spoilage... Almost have to shoot em from the road

 

[sdporter]

That is a .50 BMG Case that i made a “Cookie Cutter” out of For extracting .50 Cal Bullets from Lube after Pan Lubing. I have also seen Speed Loaders used, The Cartridge Case is kinda unique/Cool i guess? Either way serves the Same Purpose

Great idea! That’s why it looked like an 06. Same dimensions only larger...

 

[sdporter]

NOE offers a sizer also with interchangeable "sizer bushings" but if you want to get serious the Swinlock or Hankins adjustable is the ticket.

$40 for the body, $7.50 for the push rod and $9.75 per bushing
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564_104&osCsid=9fj1d19a303qcmfh7h1h3dcgp0

This is what I use made it if a bunch of scrap laying around the shop (hospital maintenance) I just turn the sizing dies and bore to -0.001”under what I want and sand and polish to finished size. I put a 1-2 degree lead in angle to help center the bullet before it’s pushed through. Not my best work but, it works. The NOE is definitely worth the money. I have way more than $60 into this thing. I’ve just gotta get some number stamps to stamp the size on the dies. Sharpie wears off fairly quickly.....

 

[sdporter]

I found if you live in a warmer climate bore butter works fine. But is you live in a colder weather bore butter gets very hard in a short time while hunting. I have two Whitelightings, my own bullets come out of the the mold at .504 and I resize them to .503. In one gun I can push them in with my thumb. The other gun I use the bullets not resized and they are so loose I use pink waterline tape on them.

The Teflon tape works well I hear. It’s just “one more thing”. These shoot pretty well in my whitetail. Think I need to add some tin to get them to shoot out of my Super 91. It’s got a stainless barrel. Whitetail is blued. They were sized to .5035 on the target shot with my whitetail

 

[GM54-120]

It all depends how serious and how precise you want. A Hankins adjustable can be had for $125 plus shipping if you only need the die. Swinglock is around $160 shipped. The NOE is probably fine for lead conicals for the vast majority of casters/shooters.

 

[muzzlestuffer]

Speaking of cast bullets I just ordered a accurate mold for my white .540 bison it's a whopper 750 grain same design as the 600 grain he made for my .504 this has 4 grease grooves and will be very interesting to shoot to say the least I can't wait to take a elk at 50-100 yards with it hope I get on video !

 

[Idaholewis]

Speaking of cast bullets I just ordered a accurate mold for my white .540 bison it's a whopper 750 grain same design as the 600 grain he made for my .504 this has 4 grease grooves and will be very interesting to shoot to say the least I can't wait to take a elk at 50-100 yards with it hope I get on video !

Put about 100 to 110 Grains of Powder behind it, Rattle teeth Fillings

 

[brad502a]

Speaking of cast bullets I just ordered a accurate mold for my white .540 bison it's a whopper 750 grain same design as the 600 grain he made for my .504 this has 4 grease grooves and will be very interesting to shoot to say the least I can't wait to take a elk at 50-100 yards with it hope I get on video !

Ouch!!

 

[edmehlig]

Put about 100 to 110 Grains of Powder behind it, Rattle teeth Fillings

I’m sure it will!