Howdy from central Texas. (Also, lots of questions)

[runesc]

Hey all. I'm a brand-spankin-new muzzle-loader owner from central Texas.

I have some idea where to start, but all this powder substitutes and pellet powder and grain volume equivalents are so confusing to me. I have lurked on this forum for a few days reading up on suggestions and what not, and from what I've come across Blackhorn 209 is "the best" loose powder for muzzle-loaders. Any recommendations for powder or pellets will be a great help.

I have a "Traditions Buckstalker XT Muzzleloading Rifle 50 Caliber 24" barrel" and I would like to know any bullet suggestions. I was looking to get "Hornady Great Plains Bullets - 385 Grain .50 Caliber" because I have heard that the sabots have issue with plastic buildup in the bore. Also, the sabots don't make any sense to me, its a smaller bullet in a larger bore, I just don't understand how they can gain velocity. And with this size of bullet that I am looking at, I don't know if it would require more powder to get going or if that would be dangerous to do. I have also read that only the balls need patches and that the Hornady projectiles are pre lubed and don't need patches, but, again, I do not know how it works. Any suggestions for projectiles and explanations for the sabots would be appreciated.

I also was thinking about what kind of cleaning kit I should get. Right now I'm looking at the "Thompson Center Hunters Choice Muzzleloader Accessory Kit" that comes with a starter, flex loader (which I'm not quite sure what that is), some all natural bore cleaner (which I read is the best for any muzzleloader), cleaning patches, Loading jag, breech brush, and pre-treated seasoning patches (again, not quite sure their purpose besides cleaning). Also, I have no idea how to clean one of these things. I assume you take the breech assembly apart and run your brushes and rods through the whole thing to clean all that fowling off as well as wiping off the opening of the bore and surrounding area.

Also, primers. I read on this forum that Federal 209A and CCI 209M are the best primers to use in modern muzzleloaders because they provide the power and heat to get all pellets and powders ignited without having a hang fire or misfire. I don't know if this is true or if there's a better option. And again, any suggestions are welcome.

I'm asking a lot of questions because I don't want to ruin this rifle I've bought, but I should've done this BEFORE I bought the rifle. Now here I am sitting with a rifle I have NO IDEA how to use.

Thanks
-runesc

 

[ElDiablo]

Welcome! This is the place to ask. I know if can be confusing and overwhelming when you get started. But it’s really not as complicated as it seems. When I started back in the mid 80s there were obviously no forums like this to learn from. Had to figure it all out on our own. You’ll get good advise here!

 

[HC]

To the group

 

[ElDiablo]

Not knowing what you will hunt but assuming whitetails at close to mid range (out to 200 yards) and assuming no weird muzzleloader requirements in TX, all you really need is:

Some bullets, primers, powder and cleaning/loading accessories.

This is not what I use but, IMO, the simplest way for you to get started, especially considering component shortages these days, would be:

Triple seven pellets (50 gr)
Some kind of sabot with 250-300 gr bullets
Any 209 primer (although the muzzleloading 209s would be best with 777)
A loading/cleaning jag, .50 brass brush, patches and some solvent.
Some speed loader of some kind to take extra loads while hunting.

That’s it. Use two 50 gr pellets for a total of 100 grain load. Seat the sabot/bullet on the pellets. Swab the bore with a damp patch between shots at the range. Clean it by removing the breech plug and using solvent/brush/patches at the end of the day. Pay close attention to getting all fouling and carbon out of the breech plug.

After a little experience, if you’re like many of us you’ll want to use loose 777 or Blackhorn and find a charge weight and bullet that shoots 1-2” groups (or better) at 100 yards in your particular rifle. With loose powder you will need a volumetric powder measure. Don’t worry about weighing powder.

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from up the road a bit in southeast Oklahoma.
My first inline was an original model Buckstalker. Prior to that I only shot and still do, traditional guns, patched round balls, lead conicals and black powder, so I used what I had on hand.
The Buckstalker shot good with black and the old Thompson Center Maxi Hunters, 275 grain.
Blackhorn 209 was just coming on the market then so I switched to that but stayed with the Maxi Hunters. Killed a bunch of deer with that setup.
You can try those Great Plains bullets, they should shoot pretty good. Try a few different ones, that's part of the fun of muzzleloading.

 

[Jitterbug]

Welcome from MN, runesc!

ElDiablo gives good advice…

Pellets are easy, and a good place to start. “100 grains” of pellets, saboted bullet of about 250 grains, and a 209 primer are a great place to start. Your rifle might shoot that load just fine… many of them do!

My crude understanding of the sabot principle- you can go with a smaller diameter bullet, w/better ballistic coefficient. This will get you more muzzle velocity, and a flatter trajectory, among other things.

If you swab between shots, you’ll be able to feel if you’re developing a ‘crud ring’ down where your powder charge sits. Scrub it out as you feel it developing, and it will largely be a “non-issue.”

***Don’t overthink things, at first. Don’t go all crazy buying every kind of piwdrr, projectile, and primer available, at first- keep it basic! You can spend the rest of your life going down rabbit holes, chasing perfection.

Before you do that, shoot some basic loads, and get comfortable with your rifle… As you shoot more, and read more, you’ll understand more…

“Have a blast!”

 

[ElDiablo]

And as far a safety goes

Always:

1. Use a ‘witness mark’ on your ramrod
2. Pay close attention to what you are doing
3. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction - especially while loading

 

[Swamp]

Welcome from Michigan! I’m fairly new to this wonderful place. Lots of good people here! Enjoy!

 

[Swamp]

Also, being new to ML’ing, please listen to everyone here that provide information and or instructions, and last, there are no stupid questions! If you have a question, ask it!

 

[BradMc67]

Welcome from Missouri! You are in the right place to learn.

 

[runesc]

My crude understanding of the sabot principle- you can go with a smaller diameter bullet, w/better ballistic coefficient. This will get you more muzzle velocity, and a flatter trajectory, among other things.

Now, I am no expert on rifles nor rifling, but how on earth would a sabot engage rifling if its a smaller diameter? That's why I am not comfortable with the idea of a sabot, only because its foreign.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Now, I am no expert on rifles nor rifling, but how on earth would a sabot engage rifling if its a smaller diameter? That's why I am not comfortable with the idea of a sabot, only because its foreign.

The smaller diameter is the bullet, not the sabot.
Upon ignition the pressure obturates the sabot into the rifling.
Some pretty nice groups can be shot when using sabots.

 

[runesc]

The smaller diameter is the bullet, not the sabot.
Upon ignition the pressure obturates the sabot into the rifling.
Some pretty nice groups can be shot when using sabots.

Wouldn't the plastic sabots melt with that heat? And does it just shoot the whole thing out? Plastic and all?

 

[runesc]

And as far a safety goes

Always:

1. Use a ‘witness mark’ on your ramrod
2. Pay close attention to what you are doing
3. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction - especially while loading

1. Yes, When I get my rifle the first thing I'm doing is putting a witness mark.
2. & 3. Isn't that just basic gun safety? Lol

 

[runesc]

Not knowing what you will hunt but assuming whitetails at close to mid range (out to 200 yards) and assuming no weird muzzleloader requirements in TX, all you really need is:

Some bullets, primers, powder and cleaning/loading accessories.

This is not what I use but, IMO, the simplest way for you to get started, especially considering component shortages these days, would be:

Triple seven pellets (50 gr)
Some kind of sabot with 250-300 gr bullets
Any 209 primer (although the muzzleloading 209s would be best with 777)
A loading/cleaning jag, .50 brass brush, patches and some solvent.
Some speed loader of some kind to take extra loads while hunting.

That’s it. Use two 50 gr pellets for a total of 100 grain load. Seat the sabot/bullet on the pellets. Swab the bore with a damp patch between shots at the range. Clean it by removing the breech plug and using solvent/brush/patches at the end of the day. Pay close attention to getting all fouling and carbon out of the breech plug.

After a little experience, if you’re like many of us you’ll want to use loose 777 or Blackhorn and find a charge weight and bullet that shoots 1-2” groups (or better) at 100 yards in your particular rifle. With loose powder you will need a volumetric powder measure. Don’t worry about weighing powder.

Yeah, I was having that issue with finding supplies. I don't know the best place to get supplies and muzzle-loaders.com doesn't have any primers. I was hoping there might be some place that has everything to buy so I don't have to surf around online. (Also, I'm still getting used to this forum so sorry for any late replies)

And with primers, I know that a recommended primer for muzzleloaders is Federal 209A and CCI 209M but I'm not really sure the difference between these and regular primers. (And this might be beyond the scope of muzzleloaders but I would like to know)

With loose powders I read that 777 powder is hotter than normal powder substitutes like pyrodex, but again, I have no idea what the difference in energy is or why its that way.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really curious.
-runesc

 

[ENCORE50A]

Sabots made today are much different than most horror stories about them are. Using a sabot isn't the end of the world even with heat. One just has to understand that you can't load and go bang, bang, bang. Give time for the barrel to cool down and sabots work just fine. They don't fill the groves with plastic if you let the barrel cool some between shots.

Your primer concern............. Federal 209A and CCI209M are MAGNUM PRIMERS. They are hot and have the highest pressure of all 209 primers. They are recommended when using BH209. The WIN209 primers work well for some. Primers marked as "Muzzleloader" primers have less heat and much less pressure. They were designed to be used with other substitutes which can cause "Crud Rings".

Witness marks................... Assuming that you understand what those are, once you determine your favorite load, then mark the rod. Some will scribe it, others, including myself, use a piece of tape on the ramrod. I do NOT use thimbles under the barrel. I use a 3 piece rod for loading.
You can certainly mark your rod and it would be a good idea when working up your "pet load". It gets you used to looking at and making damn sure that witness mark is in the right place, flush with the barrel when loaded.

 

[snapbang]

Another welcome from Michigan. All kinds of knowledge here.

 

[deermanok]

If you're anywhere near Claude, Texas, there's a place called Travelers Antiques and Trading Company. They are a good source for muzzleloader supplies.

 

[Okie Hog]

I have heard that the sabots have issue with plastic buildup in the bore

That's a long standing myth. Been hunting with saboted bullets since 2000 and have never encountered any problem plastic residue.

Welcome from southwest Oklahoma.

 

[ElDiablo]

I was hoping there might be some place that has everything to buy so I don't have to surf around online.

Wouldn’t that be nice!! Join the crowd. You may find everything you need at a local shop but I’m unaware of any place on the internet that currently has everything you would need.

Primers have been scarce for months now. I’ve only seen Fed209a’s available online once or twice in the past 8 months and they generally sell out within minutes. Of course you can generally find a wide selection of primers and powder on Gunbroker.com but you’ll pay crazy prices there. The good news is if you try some 777 powder, the Federal 209 muzzleloader primers are becoming fairly widely available.