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I'm guessing this is the one that is reaching 2800fps? When you're replicating centrefire ballistics at what point do muzzleloader seasons just end?

CF ballistics have been duplicated for quite some time. The old "Super 45" loads were similar to a 7mm-08. They just did it rather poorly. Guys shooting SMLs have shot faster with less powder for many many years too. Even currently available 45s are matching or beating common 45-70 load data with upto a 325gr bullet. My 52cal would get the 325gr FTX out of the barrel at around 2100fps. That is hotter than the Hornady FTX ammo.

There are posts on here from before 2010. Guys putting Pacnor 408Cheytac 1-16 barrels on Savage MLIIs. A few minutes knurling up 200gr SSTs and you got a screamer with the right powder. Swinglock was selling 416s capable of shooting a 375gr bullet in the 2800-3000fps range.....Now that is a beast!!! You more or less have a 416 Weatherby Mag in energy shooting the same bullets.

A 220gr@2800fps with BH209 is new. Very interested on how they are getting that. Pressure has to be really high and with that high peak is gunna require some big changes to a few things on the MR type frames/plugs. One change that comes to mind right off the bat is the huge slot in the firing pin bushing. I also bet the hole for the firing pin needs to be smaller. I cant imagine they are using a breech plug with the huge concave dish it in. A breech plug like that will be toast in no time shooting a load like that.

Loads making that kind of peak even eat Lehigh vent liners for lunch. You are lucky to get 20 shots out of a vent before its bulging primers. So my next guess if they had to go to the LRMP for safety reasons. Even they wont be immune though when the flash hole is wasted. That is why the major SML builders have gone to tungsten carbide bushings for the flash hole. ASG sells a LRMP plug for CVAs. Looks to me like its just the ticket for one of these new MRXs.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/cva_qrbp/
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I wonder how a Fury 40cal 275gr compares in BC. Not sure ive seen a proven BC for them. I would guess its at least .300
 
B777985B-BCD4-4FFC-9E45-7594F399CCA4.jpeg
300win mag data off Wikipedia.
The BC & SD of a 30cal will be better than a 40.
Theirs isn’t faster or flatter.
 
View attachment 12476
300win mag data off Wikipedia.
The BC & SD of a 30cal will be better than a 40.
Theirs isn’t faster or flatter.

Wikipedia is never a reliable source. I haven't hand loaded for a 300WM for a few years but I don't remember ever getting that type of velocity out of 220gr pills.
 
Nosler lists almost 2800fps with their load data and components. Plus a BC that is FAR better than .360 The Barnes 300WinMag 220gr ammo is almost in the claimed 2800fps range.
 
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I should qualify what I said sorry, I never got that performance. The hottest loads don't necessarily mean the most accurate, so you can choke a kangaroo with a 10 cent piece and get every available fps but doesn't mean it will shoot worth a damn. But that's besides the point, it is possible so I stand corrected.
 
Back during the early "Super 45" days it was a 45cal shooting a 40cal 155-175gr bullet in a sabot. A 3 pellet load would get you in the 2500fps range. That is similar to a 7mm-08

Well they mostly got that speed but with a more of a pattern than a group. It didnt take long for them to blame the twist instead of the load. PR bullet still claims a 1-20 is too fast for sabots but that is not entirely true....Maybe too fast for the sabots he sells with his bullets is a more accurate statement.

So i take the claimed speed CVA is posting with a grain of salt. That much speed dont meen squat to me if its a pattern shooter and the bullet acts like a Varmint Grenade on impact.
 
Back during the early "Super 45" days it was a 45cal shooting a 40cal 155-175gr bullet in a sabot. A 3 pellet load would get you in the 2500fps range. That is similar to a 7mm-08

Well they mostly got that speed but with a more of a pattern than a group. It didnt take long for them to blame the twist instead of the load. PR bullet still claims a 1-20 is too fast for sabots but that is not entirely true....Maybe too fast for the sabots he sells with his bullets is a more accurate statement.

So i take the claimed speed CVA is posting with a grain of salt. That much speed dont meen squat to me if its a pattern shooter and the bullet acts like a Varmint Grenade on impact.

Totally agree, its really just marketing. But history shows people are susceptible to it, look at the 7mm08 for example. All it is, is a 1980 marketing ploy that replicates the ballistics of the 7x57/275 Rigby from 1892.

In the centrefire world by 1906 you had the 7x57, 30-06, 9.3x62 and 450-400NE which in my view is good enough to take any big game animals in the world. You could maybe stretch it to 1925 with the 300H&H for magnum ballistics. Everything since then is marketing in my view.

But I digress,

I didn't articulate my first post well, I'm not opposed to having a muzzleloader with those ballistics, my point is if you can match centrefire ballistics what's the point of separating the seasons out? You may as well blend them together as we so here
 
In the beginning you had firearms and archery. Somewhere along the line states wanted to increase revenue from tags or simply needed another way to keep numbers in check.

Then BOOM, the muzzleloader seasons were born

The end.. :D

Mine is after firearms so why even bother if its the same tag. I just hunt the firearms season and avoid the colder "alternative season" altogether. They allow pistols in mine so i have no incentive to hunt it unless i just want to hunt.
 
In the beginning you had firearms and archery. Somewhere along the line states wanted to increase revenue from tags or simply needed another way to keep numbers in check.

Then BOOM, the muzzleloader seasons were born

The end.. :D

Mine is after firearms so why even bother if its the same tag. I just hunt the firearms season and avoid the colder "alternative season" altogether. They allow pistols in mine so i have no incentive to hunt it unless i just want to hunt.
I didn't know the history, I thought I read in some of the eastern states it was a safety thing. But having worked for the past decade in government I should have known better!
 
Well some states had lobbies that for whatever reason felt ML hunters didnt need to share the woods with other hunters. Personally i think that is a load of đź’© . Ive shared my hunting season more often than not. I apply for the managed hunts that are early and ML only. We got some really good ones on great land. They offer them for firearms and archery too.

A rifle like the MR-X would be wonderful on those hunts if it can shoot both loads i would like to shoot. I tone it back on those kinds of hunts because its a little safer. So a good lighter conical shooter is high on my "need" list.
 
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