I SERIOUSLY underestimated sidelocks

Discussion in 'Sidelock/Traditional Muzzleloading' started by Confederate rifleman, Jan 16, 2020.

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  1. Jan 16, 2020 #1

    Confederate rifleman

    Confederate rifleman

    Confederate rifleman

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    Now 2 range trips do not necessarily a trend make, but my Hawken is showing signs of being an exceptionally accurate rifle. In fact, nearly as accurate as my Firehawk when she was open sighted.
    Largest group today was 1 3/8ths for 3 at 50. Smallest was 5/16ths.
    My usually ( inline) load. 45 cal 250 gr Hornady xtp, Harvester crush rib and 70 gr of 3f Swiss. Next time will chrono it, but I'm guessing 1700 fps.
    This is a new barrel ( today makes 50 rounds down bore) so she isn't close to broken in yet. Btw, she's an M stamp barrel.
    I have to get an aperture sight on this one licketisplit! I expect groups will tighten up a wee bit more.
    I've never got accuracy like this from a sidelock before. She's also very consistent in point of impact. Groups overlap well and she hits the same spot day after day. That is a most important trait in any rifle.
    I have another factory barrel to try. It too is unfired, and I hope, just as accurate.
    IdahoLewis is right. Do not discount a good sidelock.
     
  2. Jan 16, 2020 #2

    Rlsmith

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    What load are you using powder/bullet
     
  3. Jan 16, 2020 #3

    edmehlig

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    I got to agree IdahoLewis knows what to do to get those sidekicks to shoot accurately! Not to mention he shoots a lot more than most of us do and knows how to shoot.
     
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  4. Jan 16, 2020 #4

    Sideshow

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    A good barrel shows itself no matter what its in . A good job done with 0000 steel wool then some bore polish makes em even better !!! Now thats a break in !!!!
     
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  5. Jan 16, 2020 #5

    Confederate rifleman

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    The load was a .45 caliber 250 grain XTP in a Harvester crush rib sabot over 70 grains of 3f Swiss.
    The neat thing is that other than cleaning her and replacing the nipple and ( bent) wedge, I've done nothing to this rifle.
    Once she's proper sighted, I can't wait to see what she can really do.
     
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  6. Jan 17, 2020 #6

    snapbang

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    I replaced barrels on two different guns with Green Mountain barrels. They are 1 in 66 twist and very long. I only shot round balls out of them but neither was fussy about the amount of powder or patch. I recall shooting between 70 and 100 g(V) of powder and all powder charges shot to the same point of impact. I loved them and killed 1 - 2 deer yearly for 30 years with them. Id still be using them but my eyes dont see the sights as well as I need to for responsible shooting. I enjoy my Wolf but the Hawken leaned in the corner of the deer blind for the entire season. Couldn't leave an old friend at home for deer season.
     
  7. Jan 18, 2020 #7

    Willfish4fud

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    Couldn’t agree more. You may be even more surprised what it will do with .50 full bore conicals (no sabot etc.) Mines just as accurate As with sabot loads and the critter taking ability is crazy. I shot a bull elk at 90 yds broadside this year. Went 30 yards n died. Was looking forward to extracting the bullet to see how it performed. 400 gr pure lead conical with 70 gr of 777 blew right through him
     
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  8. Jan 18, 2020 #8

    snapbang

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    For the 30 years I hunted with a sidelock I never felt under gunned. Back then I didn't understand the poor BC of the round ball and minimum foot pounds of energy. I just knew that if I did my part I could kill deer at 100 yards . I never recovered a ball because they always went through. Deer were devastated when hit. These guns help me to realize the bravery and courage of our forefathers who stood toe to toe in lines on the battle field and shot into each others ranks. They were bad ass. God Bless our soldiers.
     
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  9. Jan 18, 2020 #9

    Dave951

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    Modern gun guys get wrapped up in the KE factor of bullets but they just don't look at momentum. A huge chunk of lead going at moderate velocity is going to get the job done. We shoot 58s in competition in the N-SSA and lots of guys use the same gun and ammo they compete with to hunt. So we have a 58cal minie ball going at about 1k fps, weighing in at 400+gr of soft lead. Expansion? Who needs it (although it's going to happen) as the bullet starts at 58cal. Weight, how's 400+gr? Compare that to say a 44Mag and it's an eyeopener. Even the mighty 454 Casull in it's heaviest bullet at 400gr is only moving at barely 1400fps and all it takes to kick a minie up to that range is up the powder charge from 40ish to the service charge of 60gr.

    All a modern gun does is allow a larger margin of error for a poor shot.
     
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  10. Jan 19, 2020 at 3:51 AM #10

    snapbang

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    Your comment about expansion not being to critical for a large caliber gun. I always thought the same way. If a 50 caliber round ball doesn't leave a big enough hole then your hunting one very large critter. And if the bullet passes completely through now you have a long wound channel and two holes to leak out of. But expansion does have a tendency to drop them on the spot. I do like that. I'm thinking it wont be long before they come out with larger caliber Inlines. Something you can watch go through the air after you pull the trigger.
     
  11. Jan 19, 2020 at 5:01 AM #11

    ronlaughlin

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    Certainly makes sense to most forum members; a 58 caliber hole all the way through an animal will make it sick.



    There is another way to look at expansion.........

    The force to expand/deform the bullet comes from the flesh of the animal. Exerting this force on the bullet damages the flesh. An expanding/deforming bullet leads to more damage to the animal, because the work done by the flesh on the bullet tears the flesh. The flesh damaging the bullet makes for a bigger mess to the innards.

    Nothing wrong with a 58 caliber hole all the way through innards however a bullet that deforms inside, leaves behind more of a mess.

    The energy to expand the bullet, and tear the flesh comes from the powder; the force to deform/expand the bullet comes from the flesh. Momentum carries the bullet through, and out. The force the flesh exerts on the bullet makes a mess of the flesh.

    Does this make sense?
     
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  12. Jan 19, 2020 at 12:52 PM #12

    snapbang

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  13. Jan 19, 2020 at 4:26 PM #13

    Confederate rifleman

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    I believe the " force" is the velocity given by the powder. Its the resistance of the flesh, and fluids, in the unfortunate critter that causes expansion/ deformation.
    The projectile causes a shock wave , the displaced tissue and fluids moving ahead of the projectile. The faster the projectile, the greater the effect. Also the displaced materials can't get out of the way fast enough and disperses to the sides causing a greater temporary cavity.
    Expansion isn't only the nose of the projectile flattening out. Its also a function of the law of motion. Just as when fired, a minie gets shorter, because the base begins moving before the nose ( I once recovered a fired, but undeformed Lyman 575213OS, that was about an eigth inch shorter than unfired), a projectile expands not only from frontal resistance, but also because as the frontal surface expands and slows, the rear is still pushing forward. Caught between 2 forces, so to speak.
     
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