Johnson Ultimate Muzzleloader ?

[fishhawk2700]

I shoot Lukes plugs in both my UF, and my RUM. All I ever did to my plugs was Teflon tape and a dab of rem oil. Torque was around 40 in-lbs. They went in and came out the same way. Way better system than dinking around with the brass.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Photo shows Luke' plug appears to be a 'rear' sealing plug. The front sealing plugs used by my rifles don't actually 'seal' without help. However, they actually work without tape or grease, when burning Blackhorn. Also, they are easy to remove.

Would it be reasonable to burn Blackhorn with Luke' plug, using a thin film of oil only? Expect it to seal? Expect it to be readily removable?[/QUOTE

Luke's replacement plug is still a front sealing plug.



The actual OEM plug Luke removed from my BP Xpress and sent me this photo...…..
Notice after Luke broke the nipple off, he had to drill it and remove it with the large ez-out.
That mess you see on the BP, that's Permatex Nickle and the plug still wedged and stuck.


.
The UF plug is softer steel than the Remington plug. The UF plug will wedge itself in the barrel threads and will not come out. Ken intentionally did that.... (long story).

I wouldn't trust either the RUM or the UF plugs with just a light coat of oil. Certainly never the UF plug. That sucker is just going to wedge itself in the barrel threads. I know of only one UF owner who has ever been able to remove his OEM breech plug, but then only after heating the heck out of his barrel. Not sure, but I believe he was only able to do that once.
Another thing to consider...….. the RUM and UF rifles are shooting up to 160grs VOLUME of BH, and/or 180grs of T7 and even up to 200grs of BP. Much more pressure than a 120gr production rifle charge of BH.

The great thing about Luke's Gen2 replacement plug for either rifle, is that it is hardened and will not wedge itself in the barrel. A person "might".... I never tried it... wrap a Gen2 plug with Teflon tape and it not leak and remove easily. Honestly, of all the UF owners I know that are using Luke's Gen2 plug, I don't think any of them have tried just tape for sealing, except Fishhawk, who beat me posting.

I don't have to worry about it any more

 

[HawgHunter]

Do you have to clean Luke’s gen 2 after a range session?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Do you have to clean Luke’s gen 2 after a range session?

Its no different than any other breech plug you may have in a rifle. Fishhawk has had great luck with just tape, but you still have to clean the rifle as any other.

 

[fishhawk2700]

I started my target shooting in mid Oct. for our Mi. firearms deer season. The plug went in with Teflon tape and oil. I didn't take it out again until my muzzleloader season ended the second weekend in Dec. I would shoot whenever the weather would allow. If the rifle was going to sit more than a few days, I would clean the bore. When I finally cleaned it for the end of season the plug came out just like it went in. I make sure to keep the rifle as moisture free as possible. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

 

[sabotloader]

I started my target shooting in mid Oct. for our Mi. firearms deer season. The plug went in with Teflon tape and oil. I didn't take it out again until my muzzleloader season ended the second weekend in Dec. I would shoot whenever the weather would allow. If the rifle was going to sit more than a few days, I would clean the bore. When I finally cleaned it for the end of season the plug came out just like it went in. I make sure to keep the rifle as moisture free as possible. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

Just out of curiosity which powder are you shooting and what is your normal load for hunting?

 

[fishhawk2700]

Just out of curiosity which powder are you shooting and what is your normal load for hunting?

I don't like posting custom rifle load data in the open. I will PM the info.

 

[sabotloader]

I don't like posting custom rifle load data in the open. I will PM the info.

Correct - good thought!

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

If the plug has a shoulder it will seal . Normally they will leak approx 1/4 the way up the plug then stop . This is with oil only . Even if it does leak it will be very little . You will always be able to remove Luke’s plug .

 

[HawgHunter]

I picked up a used UF Ultra with a bunch of accessories. The rifle had not been taken care of very well but was priced accordingly. Just a little pitting near the muzzle both internally and externally. Aluminum bolt plug has a big scratch.

40x action with the 40x trigger.
Walnut stock with aluminum bedding block that was also skim bedded.
The barrel has been EDM ported.
Extra breech plug that appears unused.
Winchester and Starline primers
Pyrodex pellets
SSTs

My original intention was to send it off for a smokeless 45 conversion but I may just upgrade to Luke’s breech plug. I will polish out the bolt plug scratch, refinish the stock since it is a beautiful piece of wood.

In the mean time I will just burn up the Pyrodex pellets and primers until this breech plug needs replacing.

Is there an advantage in going to Triple 7 pellets?

The Starline primers are new. Is there any primer case prep that will help with longevity?

Thank you for your help.

 

[ENCORE50A]

....................In the mean time I will just burn up the Pyrodex pellets and primers until this breech plug needs replacing.

Is there an advantage in going to Triple 7 pellets?

The Starline primers are new. Is there any primer case prep that will help with longevity?

Thank you for your help.

I never shot Pyrodex in mine and always used T7 and although you still have to swab between shots, still isn't as dirty as P. If your rifle is shooting to your expectations with P, there's no problem with continuing to use them. T7 IMO is a better propellant all the way around.

With the Starline brass, at least you have the best and most consistent. There really isn't anything you can do to the primer carrier to make them last longer. The amount of usage is totally dependent on head space.

You would never regret changing to Luke's Gen2 breech plug. It is without question, the best after market product for either the UF or RUM rifles.

 

[HawgHunter]

The original breech plug still looks pretty clean so maybe the problem is with the Winchester brass that came with the rifle. Next trip to the range I’ll try out the new Starline brass. I cleaned out the flash hole and primed them with magnum match primers last night.

I’ll give T7 pellets a try once these pyrodex pellets start getting low. I’m pretty happy how it shoots with pyrodex pellets. One ragged hole off bags at 100 yards with SSTs. Still less than MOA at 300 yards with a 3 shot group.

I may to dip into my smokeless bullet supply to see what it will do at 300 and beyond.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The original breech plug still looks pretty clean so maybe the problem is with the Winchester brass that came with the rifle. Next trip to the range I’ll try out the new Starline brass. I cleaned out the flash hole and primed them with magnum match primers last night.

I’ll give T7 pellets a try once these pyrodex pellets start getting low. I’m pretty happy how it shoots with pyrodex pellets. One ragged hole off bags at 100 yards with SSTs. Still less than MOA at 300 yards with a 3 shot group.

I may to dip into my smokeless bullet supply to see what it will do at 300 and beyond.

I've never had Winchester brass so I can't say how good or bad it may be. I've measured the Starline head thickness and the most I've found is a .005" difference in thickness. Its when the brass isn't seated tight to the nipple that creates the gas leaking and eventual gas cutting of the OEM breech plugs.

There is a labor intensive way to change the problem, but it is very labor intensive. First you have to find the thinnest head thickness piece of brass and use it for a pilot. Then the head space needs to be reset to close the bolt tight on that pilot brass. Once that's completed, you have to trim each piece of brass to the exact overall length. Then set an inside primer pocket reamer to the depth of your pilot. Once that depth is set, you manually ream all the inside primer pockets of the remaining brass.
At that point all the brass will seal tightly on the nipple, which in the long run will give you a few more re-primes of each piece of brass.

Did I mention its labor intensive????? Try that with 2,000 pieces of brass!

This whole mess is completely eliminated with Luke's Gen2 breech plug. No head space problems, no gas cut nipples, no more leaking, and perfect ignition every time. In addition...… with Luke's BP you can shoot BH209 and make the rifle a real race horse instead of a pony. Remington knows about the Gen2 system and I think they are TOTALLY NUTS for not working with Luke.
As far as UF, I don't think Ken is making many rifles anymore. Last time he and I talked, he was telling me he was drastically cutting back on builds.

 

[HawgHunter]

Maybe I’ve misunderstood the relationship of the primer holder and breech plug flame channel.

It was my understanding that the seal was between the inside face of the primer holder and the end of the breech plug flame channel. The balance of the breech plug was just for primer holder alignment and not for
depth. I was told that the primer holder does not truly bottom out inside the breech plug.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Maybe I’ve misunderstood the relationship of the primer holder and breech plug flame channel.

It was my understanding that the seal was between the inside face of the primer holder and the end of the breech plug flame channel. The balance of the breech plug was just for primer holder alignment and not for
depth. I was told that the primer holder does not truly bottom out inside the breech plug.

Yes, that's correct.

The seal is created from the inside of the brass case to the nipple on the breech plug as shown below....



See how the nipple is compressed by the brass case. The overall case length actually has nothing to do with head space or sealing.

The problem arises when the head thickness of the brass varies. The bolt only closes with the lugs at the same point each time.

EXAMPLE ONLY...…….. say the brass head thickness for a perfect and tight seal is .125" if you have a piece of brass where the head thickness is only .120", then you have the potential of being OFF the nipple by .005", which will allow gases to leak. On the other hand, if you have a piece that's head thickness is .130" you can't close the bolt.

The labor intensive fix I mentioned above, is when you find the THINNEST head on say 25 brass cases. Then the head space is set to that specific piece of brass, so that when the bolt closes it closes tight, creating a perfect seal. The reason for trimming each case to the exact overall length, is because you now have to ream the inside primer pockets of ALL the thicker pieces of brass. If they're not trimmed, you won't be able to close the bolt.

Fired cases should all be clean inside after firing, short of the inside of the brass case flash hole. If the cases are dirty, they are not sealing and should never be re-primed and reused.



The reason for trimming all of them to the overall length of your PILOT brass, is so you can set the reamer depth to your pilot case, then ream all the other cases. But as mentioned, you MUST use the thinnest head piece of brass that you can find for your pilot. This process is very labor intensive. I did it to 2,000 pieces of brass.





ALL...…… these issues are completely resolved with Luke's Gen2 breech plug.
It takes a rifle who's original design was for the guy that fired it 3 or 4 times before the hunting season and hunted (or partied in camp), and the Gen2 plug makes is a rifle that can be shot year round with thousands of rounds with no issues.
Let NO ONE...….. anyone...…. tell you that the Ultimate Firearms rifles can't be more accurate than the guy on the trigger. Yes, expensive, but also very accurate. The Gen2 plug just makes it an all around better rifle.

Hope this is helping...…..

 

[lwh723]

2k cases!?? Did you get some carpal tunnel?

 

[ENCORE50A]

2k cases!?? Did you get some carpal tunnel?

Did it over the winter down time...……

NOW..……….. you know why I promote your breech plug. I'll NEVER do that again, ever.

 

[HawgHunter]

Now I understand what you are talking apart. Thank you.