Knight Super DISC and Lehigh Sabotless .458-260CF

Discussion in 'Inline Muzzleloading' started by sabotloader, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. Mar 15, 2019 #1

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    DISCLAIMER! Sorry for the length of this for such a short event!

    Yesterday, Thursday 3-14-19, I was able to get to the Dinger Farm and more importantly, I was able to back the truck into our normal shooting area!!! We have such an accumulation of snow here, the area has been unavailable for a month. Fortunately, for me, Tom did push a path into the area with a snow plow a few days ago.

    I was headed to the farm for two missions. I recently acquired another stainless Knight Original DISC in 45 cal. with a Fast 1-20 bore. I made all the conversions to switch it to a Lehigh Bolt and Bare Primer ignition. I removed the original DISC stock and put a Thumbhole DISC stock on it. And I think that is going to be short lived! The rifle shot so well I am planning on taking the TH stock off and put the rifle in a very light weight Knight Kevlar Stock. Pulled the trigger off the barreled action and soaked and cleaned it. Re-lubed it and adjusted it to 0 creep and a 3lb. trigger pull. Mounted Warne scope bases on the receiver and dropped a Bushnell 3x9x40 Elite scope with a Ballistic Reticule. Bore sighted the rifle with a laser bore sight and pronounced it ready to shoot! I loaded up 16 tubes of 120 grain by volume of BH-209 and said I was ready to shoot. Best of all! Thursday proved to be a beautiful day!

    Next! - headed to the work bench to get the new Lehigh bullets ready for shooting. By that I mean I wanted to resize them from .458 to .454 which I believed would easy the amount of pressure I needed to push the bullet through the crown of the rifle. These bullets are built specifically for a .458 - 45-70 barrel. A key for trying these bullets they are designed to tighter tolerances than most ML bullets in that need to fit real rifle bore. The 45-70 rifle barrel has deeper grooves than does a 45 cal. ML and as most of you know the ML barrel can actually be different bore sizes, and where from .449 to .454. In this case the new bullet can actually cover that wide range of bores. The OD of the bullet is right at .4495 and with that it will fit MOST of the 45 ML barrels on the market. The Drive Barbs on the bullet can be resized to what ever works best for your bore.

    This particular rifle seems to have a .452'ish land to land diameter. Getting the .458 bullet through the crown can be done but it takes a couple really good whacks on a short starter to get it done. Because of that I decided to resize the Drive Barbs to .454. Another forum member suggested he might use a .457 die for his rifle. And of course if you have one of those really tight 45's you could resize them to .451 or .452. So in a way these bullets almost become a 'universal of generic' 45 bullet.

    My goal yesterday afternoon was to sight in the rifle was a simple mission get into and out of the shooting area without getting STUCK! Shoot the rifle for the first time and get it basically sighted in... Simple enough!

    I did get in and got set the bench set up. Of course the legs on the bench penetrated and the hard upper layer of the snow and sank 4-5" into the snow. And then one important thing I failed to think of was, while Tom plowed a bit of access to the cultivated field - he did not plow a path out into the field. But... he or someone in the family had been riding a snowmobile. I set the bench so that I could walk out into the field to set the target by walking on the track trail in the snow hoping it would support me. For the most part it did, but when it didn't I would dropped through almost to a knee. But I really want to shoot!

    Took four very patient shots on the target, making scope adjustments with each shot. After the 4th shot made on final adjustment to get the elevation I needed. Then on to the fun stuff shooting the 4 birds that I had taken out with me. For shots - 4 broken birds.

    From there I looked around the barren snow field and looked for a target of opportunity. I found a spot near the top of a ridge that a single piece of tilled dirt was visible. I really thought it was about 175 yard up to the dirt. Loaded up and took the shot! I missed - the bullet with just a bit to high. Broke out the range finder... according to it the range was 147 yards! Loaded up again set the cross hair right on the base of the dirt took the shot! Good shot!

    After the shooting I had done with this new bullet I was really more impressed with the bullet than I thought I would be. It, the bullet, resized to .454 went through the crown with one good pop on the short starter and push down the bore very well. Some might think it went down to easy! But I was confident it would not come of the powder in the normal hunting routine. Also, I was REALLY confident, that the drive barbs had enough grip on the land to get stabilization. The real key is will the powder cup on the bottom of the bullet seal the gas behind the bullet - it does and it did!

    Still had some tubes of powder left and was really excited about shooting - so I decided to try to walk the snow cat track again. Only this time out to 100 yards and place 4 clay birds... This is where the bullet really proved itself to me.... First shot at the far left bird clipped the top of the bird. I made a slight sight-in adjustment on the second bird - punched the center of the bird out - leaving a donut standing there. The next two shots on birds - the same results...

    I really do like this new bullet! And I already know the Terminal Performance is awesome!!!

    I only took a few pictures so he is assort of a recap.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  2. Mar 15, 2019 #2

    herschel conyers

    herschel conyers

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    Might want to proof read that third paragraph “.4995”. I had surgery yesterday with anisethic and wasn’t thinking clearly either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  3. Mar 15, 2019 #3

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    Done! Did... Thank you

    Hope surgery worked out well for you!

    mike
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  4. Mar 16, 2019 #4

    Dougs136Schwartz

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    I also did some testing with these same bullets. This first picture shows the bullet will stabilize out of a 1-28 twist .45 cal CVA Optima pro. I took one shot at 100 yards with 84 grains by weight of Blackhorn 209. I ran this bullet through my Hankins sizing die. The bullet fit extremely loose. Way to loose but with the bullets design ( the large skirt) it still engaged the rifling fine.
     

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  5. Mar 16, 2019 #5

    Dougs136Schwartz

    Dougs136Schwartz

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    I had 8 bullets to work with. First bullet was shot out of the 1-28 twist CVA to see if the slower twist would stabilize the bullet. The next 2 bullets were to get me close to the dot. Then I shot this 5 shot group out of my Savage ML with a .45 Brux 1-20 barrel. My first three shots were right at .75 4th shot went to 1inch and my 5th shot took the group to 1.5 inches. I honestly was impressed by the way they shot with no load development. I shot the bullets exactly like i was asked. I used a short starter to get the bullets started then a Knight range rod to seat the bullets on the powder. The bullets in my opionion was a little to tuff to get started down the bore. My bore with this Brux barrel is a true .450 . I am positive I could tighten this group up. I did not clean between shots nor did i allow any cool down time . I shot 7 shots consecutive. I do not post only my best groups I try to show the good with the bad. When I post a group it will be something I shot currently. I am trying to be as realistic as possible. With such little load development I feel this bullet has a ton of potential. I have never hunted with a fracturing type bullet. The guys that do hunt with these type of bullets really swear by them. I feel this bullet would really put the smack down on a Whitetail!
     

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  6. Mar 16, 2019 #6

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    That WAS a big question... would it stabilize in a 1-28. Another couple of things I think that you have shown:

    1. Even though you had ran the bullet through a sizer that probably proved to be that the Drive Barbs were sized smaller than needed allowing the bullet to go down the bore very easily....
    2. Even though the bullet was very loose in the bore, you did get good ignition of your BH load and the powder cup expanded enough to trap the pressure behind the bullet.
    3. You possibly proved Lutz Moller's theory of a bore riding bullet accurate.
    4. Your target also shows that the bullet was stabilized as it passed through the target.

    I wish I really knew more about what I am trying to talk about but your one shot spoke a lot of words.

    Since this bullet is truly a hunting bullet - I really could live with that group. Especially with no load development and shooting them the very first time.

    As I have mentioned before I was sizing the Drive Barbs to .454 (actually .4535) then loading them. At that diameter they went through the crown of my Super DISC with out a struggle at all and then easily down the bore. Scott mention that Lee had a .457 sizing die, I have ordered one and am anxious to try that.

    Still if you loaded them in a Brux barrel as they were - to me it really shows these might just be a nearly universal 45 cal bullet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  7. Mar 17, 2019 #7

    Dougs136Schwartz

    Dougs136Schwartz

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    I have no doubts I could tighten the group . 5 shot group measuring 1.5 center to center at 100 yards is definitley not a bad hunting load. My first 3 shots clover leafed. Shots 4 and 5 opened the group.
     
  8. Mar 17, 2019 #8

    Dougs136Schwartz

    Dougs136Schwartz

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    I personally think the bullets fit to tight. I think running them through a sizing die would help with my accuracy with that rifle.
     
  9. Mar 17, 2019 #9

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    Tight through the crown, correct? I know for myself the 454 reduction has worked very well. The 457 die is suppose to be here Monday and I really want to try that.

    I was going to ask if the target was shot with .458 or had tried re-sizing them at all. After what Scott had said I was pretty sure the original one you sized to .455 was going to be loose - and in fact I am really surprised that it shot so well. Scott was using PACNOR barrel. He suggested that the .457 might be the better diameter.

    I really think what makes this bullet so versatile is the .4495 OD of the bullet, allowing it to get into tight bores, and then the fact that base can expand to .452 and a little bit more. Another plus is the +/- tolerances are held much tighter than a regular ML bullet.
     
  10. Mar 17, 2019 #10

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    I can get the .458s through the crown of my SUPER DISC which is just slightly tighter than my Pacnor. The difference is so small i cant measure it but i can feel it. Takes a heckuva a good whack to get them started though. Once started they are nice and snug going down. I had no problem loading them on a squeaky clean bore. Fouled might get pretty tight. Thats why i suggested a .457.

    That reminds me i do have a loose bore Elite barrel. Its like .452.
     
  11. Mar 17, 2019 #11

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    AA HA! - would you have time to shoot a couple of those through a 1-30 barrel.... They did stabilize in a 1-28 - could they maybe stabilize in a 1-30?
     
  12. Mar 17, 2019 #12

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    Just checked to see if its open all year round and.......

    The other Conservation Dept range is still closed for the season and the indoor place is like $20. Its only a 25yrd range too.
     
  13. Mar 17, 2019 #13

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    Ok not a problem... now is when I wish I had not purged all of my 1-30's.
     
  14. Mar 17, 2019 #14

    GM54-120

    GM54-120

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    The other one does not open until April and its much further away. I dont think i even shot that Elite. I bought it for parts because it had minor pitting in the breach but the bore is fine. Its a really low serial#
     
  15. Mar 17, 2019 #15

    sabotloader

    sabotloader

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    Gosh! that is really to bad about the pitting! I got one in a trade that was pitted. Really disappointed but cleaned the heck out of the barrel and the treated it with Dynatec Bore Tech, hoping the Dynatec would fill and harden in the pits. Think it worked really well I know the rifle shot well afterwards and cleaned just like normal.

    Your ranges... see there is an advantage to living in the wild wild West! Other than on really bad snow years! That can make it difficult!

    [​IMG]
     

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