Large conical question

Discussion in 'Sidelock/Traditional Muzzleloading' started by KTK, Mar 12, 2019.

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  1. Mar 12, 2019 #1

    KTK

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    Hi all. I currently shoot a 385gr Hornady great plains, over 80gr of 777 FFG, out of my Lyman Deerstalker.
    It has a 1:48 twist. The gun likes the load.
    I am planning a bison hunt, and I am concerned that the 385 is too light, especially since it has a hollow point on it. Expansion isn't a good thing on a huge animal.
    I have another Deerstalker, identical to the first, and I want to work up a load in it for this hunt.
    First bullet I'm trying is the 600gr No Excuses. Planning to try it over 60gr to start.
    Wondering if it will do ok out of a 1:48 twist. Have heard that the huge conicals can suffer with the 1:48.
    Any thoughts on this bullet or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Mar 12, 2019 #2

    toytruck

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    You didn't say what caliber. I have a order coming in from Bullshop in .54 caliber, 380 gr. he says a 1:48 twist won't stabize in .54 if any bigger. They should do well also in a 1:28 twist.
     
  3. Mar 12, 2019 #3

    KTK

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    Sorry. It's a 50.
     
  4. Mar 12, 2019 #4

    LarryBud

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    I have heard stories of the GP fragmenting badly. I used to shoot a lot of them but never at game. They were very accurate.

    IMHO you will be much better off with NE 600. A guy doesn't shoot a Bison every day. If they don't shoot from your rifle, I'd look at a different rifle.
     
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  5. Mar 12, 2019 #5

    45-70

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    you could try these , 600 grains Paper Patch from Buffalo Arms. One on right recovered from a deer at 300 went through length ways stopped at Femur in rear leg 20190307_194239.jpg
     
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  6. Mar 12, 2019 #6

    toytruck

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    There's only one way to know for sure, of course try the 600 gr., but I suspect you will find they won't be stable like the .54 cal. I agree with Larry if they don't shoot well, you will need a rifle with at least a faster 1:24 or 1:28 twist.
     
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  7. Mar 12, 2019 #7

    KTK

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    They are on the way. I will let you guys know how it goes. It will be a cpl weeks before I can shoot.
    Thanks for the input!
     
  8. Mar 12, 2019 #8

    Harleysboss

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    NE has a new 420 grn in the 50 cal line up. That one should be ok in a 1-48. The NE bullets are going to be a better big game bullet than the GP. Just my opinion. I have shot Elk with the 450grn NE. Great performance.
     
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  9. Mar 12, 2019 #9

    45-70

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    bullets used above were shot from 24 twist barrel in .50
     
  10. Mar 13, 2019 #10

    KTK

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    Just found this online. I wonder if it would be ok if I loaded with only 60gr.
    Not sure I even want to try. Don't feel like blowing my gun up.
    May have to order the 420s.
    Sucks to eat a box of the 600.
     

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  11. Mar 13, 2019 #11

    alternate

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    You won't blow up a BP gun with a 600gr bullet but it's unlikely a 1 - 48 twist will stabilize a bullet that long.
     
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  12. Mar 13, 2019 #12

    michiganmuzzy

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    What load did you use for that? Would it stabilize from a 1:28?
     
  13. Mar 13, 2019 #13

    KTK

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    Thanks. I talked to Dave, the guy at No Excuses. He said 1:48 is the threshold. Might work, might not.
     
  14. Mar 13, 2019 #14

    45-70

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    load was 100 of 1 1/2 Swiss and .030 wad Veg.
     
  15. Mar 13, 2019 #15

    KTK

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    Just Talked to a tech at Lyman. Said the load was safe. Same thing tho, might perform, might not.
    Will post results.
     
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  16. Mar 17, 2019 #16

    KTK

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    No dice. She couldn't stabilize them. Wide and erratic groups.
    Back to the drawing board.
     
  17. Mar 17, 2019 #17

    45-70

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    Buffalo arms has some 550
    Grease Groove
     
  18. Mar 17, 2019 #18

    alternate

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    KTK; It's the length of a bullet that determines it's need for a fast twist. You said the gun likes 385 Gr hollow points. It would probably shoot a 400 gr flat point as well because it won't be any longer than the existing load. Penetration should also be improved over the hollow point. A 385 or 400 gr hard cast flat point could also be an option to give you more penetration without the additional length to cause instability. 400 gr is a lotta bullet. I don't see a bison walking away. (although I never hunted them)
     
  19. Mar 17, 2019 #19

    edmehlig

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    I know quite a few Elk have been taken using NoExcuse 45cal 385gr conicals. So I would think any grain bullet that weight or heavier in a 50cal should do fine on Bison?
     
  20. Mar 17, 2019 #20

    toytruck

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    I would recommend contacting Dan at bullshop@3rivers.net to see what he offers in .50 caliber with 1:48 twist. I bet he can fix you up with a quality bullet!!
     
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