large rifle primers in a 209 skirt ?

[Sideshow]

Guys i understood what is being discussed just fine . I even in the back of my mind wondered if he meant variflames or the long outer flanged tube the primer sits in on a 209 . They sre 2 pieces that comprise a 209 . Look closer . And green locktite ( for bearings and sleeves) WORKS to do just that , hold a LRMP right there !!!

What i threw out there is what buckdoehunter said EXCEPT for a different reason/effect , even though its the same out come .
A duplexed load of blackhorn/ whatever uses the faster powder for ignition of the slower harder to ignite powder right ???
What YOU GUYS are MISSING is in doing so right in the barrel youve also made the same as a Much Bigger Hotter Primer that REALLY gets the blackhorn releaseing its ENERGY !!!! MUCH SOONER !!!! So its Pressure Curve Is QUICKENED !!!!

I get what IM talking about just fine !!!

Dick Casull was able to get a 400 gr bullet out of a lame 45 colt Revolver @ 1900 fps by tri--plex loads . Yes its not the same exotic powders BUT The Concept is the SAME !!!! AND IT WORKS !!!! BP & SUBS INCLUDED !!!!

You may think im nuts but id rather be on the cutting edge of development than towed along . Just Sayin......

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Guys i understood what is being discussed just fine . I even in the back of my mind wondered if he meant variflames or the long outer flanged tube the primer sits in on a 209 . They sre 2 pieces that comprise a 209 . Look closer . And green locktite ( for bearings and sleeves) WORKS to do just that , hold a LRMP right there !!!

What i threw out there is what buckdoehunter said EXCEPT for a different reason/effect , even though its the same out come .
A duplexed load of blackhorn/ whatever uses the faster powder for ignition of the slower harder to ignite powder right ???
What YOU GUYS are MISSING is in doing so right in the barrel youve also made the same as a Much Bigger Hotter Primer that REALLY gets the blackhorn releaseing its ENERGY !!!! MUCH SOONER !!!! So its Pressure Curve Is QUICKENED !!!!

I get what IM talking about just fine !!!

Dick Casull was able to get a 400 gr bullet out of a lame 45 colt Revolver @ 1900 fps by tri--plex loads . Yes its not the same exotic powders BUT The Concept is the SAME !!!! AND IT WORKS !!!! BP & SUBS INCLUDED !!!!

You may think im nuts but id rather be on the cutting edge of development than towed along . Just Sayin......

I've considered duplexing with bh209. I just have gotten around to it yet. BTW, of course i think yer nutz. That's why i like you.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

Doesn't Cecil extoll the excessive nature of the 209 primer for our uses? I've swapped both my Encores to his 25 ACP brass ignition using srp, and really like the arrangement.
In fact, last time I was at the range I tried an small pistol primed 25 acp casing, and it reliably ignited my 90 grain volumetric charge of BH209. It might not do so in cold weather, during hunting season, but it worked in the fall.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Doesn't Cecil extoll the excessive nature of the 209 primer for our uses? I've swapped both my Encores to his 25 ACP brass ignition using srp, and really like the arrangement.
In fact, last time I was at the range I tried an small pistol primed 25 acp casing, and it reliably ignited my 90 grain volumetric charge of BH209. It might not do so in cold weather, during hunting season, but it worked in the fall.

It is excessive in a well sealed system. In a normal factory setup that probly leaks some it's good enough most of the time. It's that "once in a while" that shows we need a tighter setup. Then the lrp is ideal

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Its that excessive power that causes the crud ring from T7. It literally flash fries some of the powder into a residue that sticks to the bore. That's why some companies make the lighter "muzzleloader 209 primer". In the effort to lessen the ring and deposit less hard carbon in your breech plug.
But they are cheap, easy to use, and readily available.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

It's those issues, excessive power, crud rings, et cetera, that motivate me to use other options.
25 ACP brass conversions, Denny's 32 ACP brass in the old Remington 700 ML's, I think I'm going to use Luke's system in my Ruger 77/50's, and I'm still waiting on my new breechplug from BAWS for my Ultimate. I guess they had a fire at their facility a while back, and production has been interrupted, Cody said.
But basically whatever it takes to get consistancy in the rifles I choose.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Right now i wish i had a machine shop cuz i want to build a variflame knockoff that uses a SRMP and will fit in a 209 pocket. Just to see if it can reliably ignite bh209.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

From my experience with small rifle primers it consistently ignites 90 grains volumetric charges of bh209.

 

[GM54-120]

Doesn't Cecil extoll the excessive nature of the 209 primer for our uses? I've swapped both my Encores to his 25 ACP brass ignition using srp, and really like the arrangement.
In fact, last time I was at the range I tried an small pistol primed 25 acp casing, and it reliably ignited my 90 grain volumetric charge of BH209. It might not do so in cold weather, during hunting season, but it worked in the fall.

Think about this for a moment...if there were any PROOF in what Cecils says about 209s being too powerful.....Dont you think the winners circle at Friendships inline matches would be 100% rifle or pistol primers instead of 209s?...The fact is some of the best groups ever shot have been with a 209 primer so its hogwash.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

While the logic of what you say is crystal clear to me, since I've already spent the money, and the half inch or so holes on those sheets of paper out at 100 yards keep appearing where I like them to, well I guess I'll keep on keeping on.
I like the consistency of the instantaneous ignition, the ease of cleanup, et cetera. It works for me, and my rifles.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Think about this for a moment...if there were any PROOF in what Cecils says about 209s being too powerful.....Dont you think the winners circle at Friendships inline matches would be 100% rifle or pistol primers instead of 209s?...The fact is some of the best groups ever shot have been with a 209 primer so its hogwash.

Are the winners circles 100% full of 209 users?

 

[GM54-120]

Pretty much. The only one i know of currently using a LRMP is not because its better...its because he is shooting a 40cal that makes higher pressure and a stronger primer is needed. His choice has nothing to do with a 209 being too powerful for competition level accuracy.

Cecil is a salesman plain and simple. When something dont work for him like a 1-20 twist, the myths start. I would love to see him tell the shooters at Friendship that their 1-20s and 1-18s wont shoot. That is exactly what he has said for years.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

imho, that t7 crud ring IS proof. It doesn't happen in my guns if I don't use 209s. I'm not saying don't use 209s. I use them. Only with bh209. But l'm always looking for something better. And, again imho, rifle primers are it. For now. I have a DIS in my cva and its awesome. But 209s work and are easier to use while hunting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

imho, that t7 crud ring IS proof. It doesn't happen in my guns if I don't use 209s. I'm not saying don't use 209s. I use them. Only with bh209. But l'm always looking for something better. And, again imho, rifle primers are it. For now. I have a DIS in my cva and its awesome. But 209s work and are easier to use while hunting.

You do realize that even with LRP's that T7 will leave a crud ring?

 

[GM54-120]

Cecil jumped on the bandwagon claiming the 209 moved your projectile off the powder causing poor accuracy. That was its claim to fame and it was never proven in competition that i can find. It was nonsense. A #11 percusssion cap nearly eliminates the T7 crud ring also.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Pretty much. The only one i know of currently using a LRMP is not because its better...its because he is shooting a 40cal that makes higher pressure and a stronger primer is needed. His choice has nothing to do with a 209 being too powerful for competition level accuracy.

Cecil is a salesman plain and simple. When something dont work for him like a 1-20 twist, the myths start. I would love to see him tell the shooters at Friendship that their 1-20s and 1-18s wont shoot. That is exactly what he has said for years.

Pretty much isn't a yes. The rest of that has nothing to do with it. I don't use 209 or lrmp cuz this cecil guy says to or not to. Most of my guns are fast twist 45s. What im saying is based on MY experience in my guns. Not "hogwash", (thanks for the insult, btw). In my fifles ive never used LRP to shoot t7. Just #11s. And got great results with no crud ring. Not saying RPs are perfect just extolling their virtues.

 

[GM54-120]

When over 95% of everyone in the top 3-5 are using 209s.....Its a pretty darn good "yes". They do have their benefits...but accuracy increase?....lets see it proven in competition before using it as a sales pitch.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Pretty much isn't a yes...….

I've been to Friendship spring matches twice. Everyone there was using a 209 primer ignition except for two of us. One was me shooting a BP Xpress and the other was a fella shooting the inline match with a percussion rifle.
Now today, I think you might see a few more shooting Luke's modules with LRMP's.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

We should do a pros vs cons list. 209 vs RPs and take a poll of who likes which and why. Who would switch to which system.

 

[GM54-120]

Lukes or Hankins style LRMP modules will have a good advantage because the plug is totally improved vs a 209 plug. They are made from the get go to handle much higher pressures than a 209 and put the primer closer to the powder. They seal correctly and fit a variety of bolt faces. This style though needs a very solid action like one with locking lugs to see its full benefit.

LRMP setups for a Rem700ML for example are NOT the same as one setup for a center fire action. Its more or less 209 plug geometry with a LRMP.