Let's talk Sabot starters

[Half-Cocked]

First of all let me start off by saying that I use speech to text in my posts and I try to edit them as carefully as possible so that they make sense. My apologies in advance for anything that doesn't make sense. For example for some reason every time I say sabot for some reason Google thinks I mean the Jewish holiday of the Sabbath. only in this country can we sell a product that we promised to do a multitude of things that actually only does half of them and does that half poorly. Okay sorry about that rant.


my question is about Sabbath starters are they absolutely necessary specifically for the CVA wolf. I know many are going to reply well it depends if you're running a sabat or if you're doing a full bore pellet type. But let's just talk in general terms.

And if I do indeed need one what would be the preference here I see two types. One that is a t-bar handle design and the other that is a round ball that fits into the palm of your hand.

is this a matter of personal preference or does one work better than the other?

It's important to mention that if this time I'm not planning on using loose powder probably going to end up going with the pellets and saboted projectiles to start.

once I get completely comfortable with the muzzleloader then I will introduce the full bore .50 pellets. And in the last phase I will experiment with loose powder.

Sometimes I wonder if I have a speech impediment thanks Google for making my life easier....not.

 

[redear]

A short starter makes it easier to get any bullet, saboted or full size started because it seems starting a bullet or sabot takes more force than pushing it down the rest of the way. another benefit of starters is helping to assure the bullet is aligned properly in the bore. the very best starters and ramrods both have spinjag type jags on them. they barely fit in the bore and that assures there is no room for the jag to get out of alignment with the axis of the bore, thus compromising your bullet alignment, Yes I say get or make a starter. spinjag makes real good ones. I have 2 50 cal spinjags for the 50 and 2 for the 45. I think the wood ball model starter spinjag makes is sturdier than the tbar, most of those tbars are polymer. since going to spinjags on my ramrods and starters my accuracy has improved. you can also order a spinjag end in 50 cal and a short section of ramrod from spinjags site and epoxy the short rod into a hardwood block and maybe save a couple bucks.

 

[snapbang]

I have a Wolf and I do not use a starter. I swab between shots so am always on a relatively clean barrel or muzzle. I find with a firm push the sabot and bullet start and go down until they are flush with the end of the barrel. Then I put my ramrod on top and firmly push it down with one clean motion until it stops.

 

[Half-Cocked]

A short starter makes it easier to get any bullet, saboted or full size started because it seems starting a bullet or sabot takes more force than pushing it down the rest of the way. another benefit of starters is helping to assure the bullet is aligned properly in the bore. the very best starters and ramrods both have spinjag type jags on them. they barely fit in the bore and that assures there is no room for the jag to get out of alignment with the axis of the bore, thus compromising your bullet alignment, Yes I say get or make a starter. spinjag makes real good ones. I have 2 50 cal spinjags for the 50 and 2 for the 45. I think the wood ball model starter spinjag makes is sturdier than the tbar, most of those tbars are polymer. since going to spinjags on my ramrods and starters my accuracy has improved. you can also order a spinjag end in 50 cal and a short section of ramrod from spinjags site and epoxy the short rod into a hardwood block and maybe save a couple bucks.

Thank you very much you provide me with a wealth of information.
I did see one there was a wooden ball with look like brass attached to it. But I'm going to be sure to check out the spinjag I want at least get a couple prices on it see if it's not much more than what I'm looking at now.

Once again thank you you guys have been very helpful on the site.

 

[Half-Cocked]

I have a Wolf and I do not use a starter. I swab between shots so am always on a relatively clean barrel or muzzle. I find with a firm push the sabot and bullet start and go down until they are flush with the end of the barrel. Then I put my ramrod on top and firmly push it down with one clean motion until it stops.

Yeah I'm unsure as I've never fired one of these before. If nothing else I think I'll pick up the woodball one that's like $7 on Amazon just to have if I don't need it I can always return it or donate it to someone else.

It does seem though if you had to use one the ball would be a little more comfortable to use. I'll find out someday when I get it all together.

 

[GM54-120]

The wood ball type should also have a hole in them. This hole slips over the end of the ramrod. Acts like a palm saver after using the short starter.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I have a CVA Accura and a couple Knights and dont use a short starter. Although i havent shot 'sabbaths' in a while. Sized to fit cast lead coni's. Since i lernt to find the right fitting bullet or sabot combo i havent needed a starter. That may change when i try some Furys.

 

[sabotloader]

I concur with michiganmuzzy - I really do not use short starters with a sabot load. I guess if there is a trick to it - it is to find the sabot that will fit your bullet and bore. I guess I will also add that I use MMP sabots and I believe their polymer is more flexible than the polymer used by another brand, especially in the cold winter temps.

CVA's are somewhat know for their tight bores and if it is a 50 cal rifle MMP has three different thickness sabots - one of them should work well in your rifle.

 

[MSalyards]

Yeah I'm unsure as I've never fired one of these before. If nothing else I think I'll pick up the woodball one that's like $7 on Amazon just to have if I don't need it I can always return it or donate it to someone else.

It does seem though if you had to use one the ball would be a little more comfortable to use. I'll find out someday when I get it all together.

Get the plastic one from Harvester, Around $5 and has 4 likeable features.

 

[Ninering62]

Thank you very much you provide me with a wealth of information.
I did see one there was a wooden ball with look like brass attached to it. But I'm going to be sure to check out the spinjag I want at least get a couple prices on it see if it's not much more than what I'm looking at now.

Once again thank you you guys have been very helpful on the site.

Ya sure came to the right place for help & solid accurate reliable advice & instruction. This MML goup is nothing short of fantastic for about anything you can think of or find yourself having issues with.

 

[sdporter]

I don’t use a short starter either. Just hold the ramrod close to the end with both hands. Some of them can be a bear to get going. Once they’re in, they usually go down fairly smooth. Using the round wood ball starter at the end, on the final push, does help keep your hand from getting bruised in longer shooting sessions. I usually just wad up a cleaning rag over the end though, or double up a leather glove. Anything to make the ramrod end a little bigger.

 

[deermanok]

I know that CVA sells a kit with different screw in tips for different types of bullets, hollow points, polymer tips and so forth.
I mostly think it's all gimmick stuff you don't need. Either of those short starters you mentioned will work just fine. I've got one of those plastic ones I bought at Walmart a couple years ago. I think I paid about 3 bucks for it. It works great and it's good enough.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I know that CVA sells a kit with different screw in tips for different types of bullets, hollow points, polymer tips and so forth.
I mostly think it's all gimmick stuff you don't need. Either of those short starters you mentioned will work just fine. I've got one of those plastic ones I bought at Walmart a couple years ago. I think I paid about 3 bucks for it. It works great and it's good enough.

I'm not sure its a gimmick. Might want to check the link below. Loading jags can make a difference.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/bullet-testing-vs-expansion.36117/

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I do use the hollow point starter tip that came in that CVA kit sometimes.

 

[Half-Cocked]

My daughter ended up getting me a wooden ball one with a wooden shaft and brass. Looks cool so I'm going to keep it. So I figured out what CVA calls the easy load muzzle. Really it's just a recessed muzzle. Looking at that design I probably won't need a starter but kind of cool to have.
I did manage to end up cleaning it and wrote about it on another post.

 

[sdporter]

My daughter ended up getting me a wooden ball one with a wooden shaft and brass. Looks cool so I'm going to keep it. So I figured out what CVA calls the easy load muzzle. Really it's just a recessed muzzle. Looking at that design I probably won't need a starter but kind of cool to have.
I did manage to end up cleaning it and wrote about it on another post.

All that recess does is “align” bullet to bore. You still gotta force it into the bore. You probably don’t need a short starter, but it’s not an easy push to get it started. My Accura is super hard to start the bullet. Once in, it goes down pretty tight, I’ve never slugged the bore but, I’m betting it’s under .500”