Link to thread detailing Old Fashioned Bullet Swaging

[Danny Ross]

I wrote this thread for the black powder section of The High Road. I hope it may be of interest to some here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/old-fashioned-bullet-swages-from-scratch.848469/

Besides a bullet swage, all that is needed is a lead core and a hammer.

 

[Danny Ross]

Pictured are the swage barrel, the end punches, the lead core and the finished bullet.

 

[SuperKirby]

That's cool. I'd like to try that out. Seems like it would almost be easier than casting? Though I suppose your design would be a lot more limited.
Several years ago I met up with a guy that had a swage press set up in his basement. He had basically taken one of the PR bullets, changed it a little bit, then had a swaging die made for his press. Unfortunately when I saw the setup he had just finished a bunch and was waiting on more lead make more or I would have been able to try it out. Cool stuff that swaging.

 

[Danny Ross]

That's cool. I'd like to try that out. Seems like it would almost be easier than casting? Though I suppose your design would be a lot more limited.
Several years ago I met up with a guy that had a swage press set up in his basement. He had basically taken one of the PR bullets, changed it a little bit, then had a swaging die made for his press. Unfortunately when I saw the setup he had just finished a bunch and was waiting on more lead make more or I would have been able to try it out. Cool stuff that swaging.

If you go to the online book, The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951000799864f;view=1up;seq=9

you will see the variety of projectiles old-time gunmakers made provided along with their rifles. The main limitation is that bullets with lube grooves cannot be made (or at least I don't see how they can be). The point and base of the bullets can be changed by changing the end punches.





These are some of the other bullets illustrated in the book. Some were produced by swaging, others from molds supplied by the gunmakers. During the hayday of muzzleloading caplock rifles, shooters were expected to make their own bullets, with molds or swages supplied by the makers, or from molds made locally.

 

[45-70]

I knew a long range muzzle loader shooter had a home made swage to change the nose on a existing bullet he used. He was on International Team for 1000 yds.

 

[Danny Ross]

I knew a long range muzzle loader shooter had a home made swage to change the nose on a existing bullet he used. He was on International Team for 1000 yds.

1,000 yards is some serious shooting. I can't think of where a person could find a 1,000 yard range around here. The Honey Island Shooting Range near Pearl River, LA has a 100 yard rifle range, and I've heard of a 200 yard range near Kiln, MS.

 

[52Bore]

My setup..

 

[Danny Ross]

My setup..

I'm sure the swaging die in a press is much more efficient, but I enjoy figuring out how things were done in the past and replicating their methods within the limits of my tolerance for hand work. In the process, I am learning to use my tools in ways I was not before. For me, the journey is more fun than the destination.

 

[52Bore]

Danny Ross: Just as an FYI, we do have a Traditional section on this site.
You might also find Whitworth’s work interesting in bullet making. He was before Roberts.

 

[45-70]

How long does it take to do 50 and what is shape of whole bullet, It seems from other posts you dont quite know whch way you are an expert . Roundball cheap guns or Bullets, which you stated once , you wouldn't pay the money, after all it is more fun on the journey

I'm sure the swaging die in a press is much more efficient, but I enjoy figuring out how things were done in the past and replicating their methods within the limits of my tolerance for hand work. In the process, I am learning to use my tools in ways I was not before. For me, the journey is more fun than the destination.

 

[Danny Ross]

Danny Ross: Just as an FYI, we do have a Traditional section on this site.
You might also find Whitworth’s work interesting in bullet making. He was before Roberts.

Roberts credits Whitworth's work in his book, and I just read an account of a Union general being killed by a Confederate sniper at quite a long range using a Whitworth rifle. The article also recounts a British trial in 1857 in which a Whitworth rifle shot a 4.4 inch group at 500 yards using iron sights.
http://www.americancivilwarstory.com/whitworth-rifle.html

 

[Danny Ross]

How long does it take to do 50 and what is shape of whole bullet, It seems from other posts you dont quite know whch way you are an expert . Roundball cheap guns or Bullets, which you stated once , you wouldn't pay the money, after all it is more fun on the journey

I'm a tinkerer and make no claim to any expertise.

When I say I buy muzzle-loading rifles without being willing to pay much for them, I do it by seldom passing up a pawn shop or local gun shop without stopping in and seeing what they are trying to sell. I have 4 Knight DISC (orange) rifles, all bought for less than $100. The Knights are beautifully made and reportedly quite accurate. I think they have Green Mountain barrels.

Pawn shops loan as little as possible, and sometimes sell just to clear out inventory after the hunting season is over.

 

[Danny Ross]

Jim Watson, on The High Road website, sent me a link to a pdf about Corbin Pound Dies, which seem to be no longer manufactured.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/corbin_pd-1.pdf

These are pictures taken from the pdf:



The essential elements are the same, but much more practically and elegantly rendered. I intend to use some of the elements in my future swages.

 

[Danny Ross]

Roberts credits Whitworth's work in his book, and I just read an account of a Union general being killed by a Confederate sniper at quite a long range using a Whitworth rifle. The article also recounts a British trial in 1857 in which a Whitworth rifle shot a 4.4 inch group at 500 yards using iron sights.
http://www.americancivilwarstory.com/whitworth-rifle.html

This is a picture of a a Whitworth bullet and bore taken from the same article:

 

[52Bore]

Are you wanting to make round or Hex bullets?

Here’s also some Original and repo bullets we’ve tried/tested at Friendship (500yds) and Oak Ridge (1000yds) over the past 25+ years.

I assembled 16 original Whitworth’s last spring at my ML match, these will be included in an upcoming book on Whitworth.

 

[Danny Ross]

Are you wanting to make round or Hex bullets?

Here’s also some Original and repo bullets we’ve tried/tested at Friendship (500yds) and Oak Ridge (1000yds) over the past 25+ years.

View attachment 4037 I assembled 16 original Whitworth’s last spring at my ML match, these will be included in an upcoming book on Whitworth.
View attachment 4039

Interesting front sight. I found a picture of a Pedersoli Whitworth rear sight - it may be the same gun - and putting the elevation adjustments on the rear sight and the windage adjustments on the front sight goes a long way, IMHO, to simplifying sight design.

Does the front sight have inserts? The set screw on the side of the top part would seem to indicate it.

 

[52Bore]

Pedersoli sights are quite bulky compared to the originals.

Not sure what you are referring to as the same gun?

Original ML Match Rifles of period have windage on the front - the shooter adjusted for the wind while the rifle was still vertical from the loading process, then he laid down to shoot. Goodwin and Cartridge rifles developed windage on the rear.

Yes, it has different inserts for the front sight.

 

[Danny Ross]

I've been getting pretty good results swaging cores poured out of pure lead, not such good results using melted wheel weights. Besides being free, wheel weights seem to be more easily removed from my core molds. I decided I needed a press. Being too cheap to buy a commercial press, I made my own. It works fine for my purposes.

The top and bottom bearing pieces are 4"x4"x18" treated pine left over from some project. The upright pieces are 2"x4"x24". The bearing pieces are connected with 3" screws and 1/4" bolts. The bottom pieces a 2"x4"x12" and are connected to the uprights with 3" screws. A piece of 2"x1/4"x3" steel protects the upper bearing surface. Height adjustment is via scrap wood. Pressure is provide by a 1 ton hydraulic car jack from Harbor Freight "borrowed" from my wife's pickup. Out-of-pocket cost zip, since I already had everything I needed.