Long range percussion rifle

[Baccummba]

Morning community,

After watching some CapAndBall videos on YouTube and clicking around on this forum, I’ve become interested in the field of Long Range Muzzleloading. So that should give you a rough idea of my current knowledge of muzzleloading (I.e. basics, and random fine details).

My question, as the subject line implies, what would be a solid target entry level target percussion rifle to purchase? Is there any options that are below the $1k mark? Would it be more cost effective to piece one together?
Also it’s worth noting that I’d like to be able to take this hunting and that I have no muzzleloading supplies so those would also need to be purchased.

I’ve ran a few searches here and haven’t had much luck finding a newbie thread with these specifics. If I’ve overlooked feel free to direct me there. Thanks in advance!





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[52Bore]

Few LR percussion exist. Don Brown - now Rod England make a Kit, it is the best kit out there (you're starting in the $1500 range). Pedersoli Gibbs is the best off-the-shelf rifle - proven shooter.
I think GunBroker has a Italian Rigby copy, but I know someone with (I think) the same rifle who's looking for a new tumbler.

The NMLRA (Friendship, IN) is where you need to go. This is where LRML re-started in the early 90's. Not sure where you're located - but there is a lot to see there..

Hunting is not a problem (except the target sights), you'll need more robust sights.

Ask, and we'll try to direct you.. it's not rocket science, but it is challenging and a rather specific discipline.

 

[Idaholewis]

What do you consider Longe Range? For 500-600 Yards there is Nothing wrong with a Green Mountain LRH Barrel in .45 Caliber, They are Drop in Barrels for the TC Hawken, and TC Renegade Stocks. Green Mountain Quit Making these several years ago (Shame!) But You can stil find them on the Gun sites from time to time. Rice Barrels picked up the ball and they now offer Fast Twist Drop in barrels. The Oregon Barrel Co. Also Makes Drop in Fast Twist barrels. This will be your Cheapest way to go, The Barrel will be in the 350-400 Range, A really nice TC Hawken or Renegade Stock can be had for 150-200, A Rear Tang Peep sight can be anywhere from 100 bucks to several hundred depending on what you want to do? The Lyman 57SML is a Great Tang Mounted Peep sight for out to 300 yards and a little farther depending on front sight height.

This is 500 yards With my TC Hawken, Green Mountain LRH .45 Cal Barrel, Williams FP Hawken Tang Mounted Peep, Lyman 17AHB Front Globe sight, with Lee Shavers BPCR inserts. I am using Buffalo Arms .444 Diameter, 400 Grain bullets Paper Patched. Accuracy is AWESOME with this setup :yeah: At 500 yards i am totally out of Sight adjustment, i am using my Gib lock to get all the elevation i can here.

As you can see i am TOTALLY out of sight adjustment to Get this 500 Yards, and if it weren’t for me using the Lyman 17AHB Globe .404 height (lowest Globe Lyman makes) I wouldn’t be able to do this

The Bullets

If you plan to shoot Farther, You will need a Long Range Soule style Tang Peep, This is a VERY different setup than above. 1-18 Twist 32” .45 Cal Barrel (Thanks again Idahoron) Lee Shavers Super Grade Long Range Soule peep sight with Hadley eye Cup, Lee Shavers Ferris Creedmoor Adjustable windage front Globe sight, and Lee’s BPCR inserts, This rifle requires 500 Plus Grain bullets either Paper Patched, or Grease Groove (Grease Groove has proven best so far)

The Front Sight

Paper Patched bullet i am working with in this rifle

The Grease Groove bullet i am using

 

[HC]

Great post there Lewis.

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[Baccummba]

Thanks for information guys!

500+ yards is plenty far enough for me haha

I’ve been eye balling Jim Kibler’s kits here but I don’t know if he offers a percussion variation or different barrel twist options, though he should (he uses Rice barrels).

I’ve also been checking out the Lyman’s plains rifle simply because it comes with a 1-32 barrel versus the slower rates most other kit guns come with. Although I’m all for customization the idea of getting a unfinished kit gun and immediately swapping parts has me a bit nervous.

Honestly I’d love to just find a solid rifle, buy it, and start shooting.

Which leads to me my next question: what justifies the cost of these higher end range guns? Is it just the quality of the wood and the barrel or is there more to it than that?


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[long shot]

By the time you purchase parts for a long range rifle to build , you will understand and in ML anymore you get what you pay for. Usually people that build from parts try to stay on traditional side as much as possible. Only know of one fellow that offers a quality kit in long range rifle. It is as 52 bore stated his name. The fit on the breach and tang is unreal. It almost snaps together

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks for information guys!

500+ yards is plenty far enough for me haha

I’ve been eye balling Jim Kibler’s kits here but I don’t know if he offers a percussion variation or different barrel twist options, though he should (he uses Rice barrels).

I’ve also been checking out the Lyman’s plains rifle simply because it comes with a 1-32 barrel versus the slower rates most other kit guns come with. Although I’m all for customization the idea of getting a unfinished kit gun and immediately swapping parts has me a bit nervous.

Honestly I’d love to just find a solid rifle, buy it, and start shooting.

Which leads to me my next question: what justifies the cost of these higher end range guns? Is it just the quality of the wood and the barrel or is there more to it than that?


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I own a Lyman Great Plains “Hunter” in .54 Cal, it is an AWESOME shooting rifle!! :yeah: This is the only Brand New Current production rifle i own. I will say that this Rifle took some time to Grow on me, After buying it i was kinda disappointed in it, But after shooting it i was PLEASANTLY surprised, She’s a Nail driver, and not finicky in the least, I have shot 450 Grain, to 650 Grain Bullets in it, and it FLAT OUT shoots!

The things i dont like, The Crescent Butt Plate is RIDICULOUSLY sharp, Mine was Knife edge kinda sharp!! I did away with that first thing!! I installed a Cimmaron Lace up Butt Pad, but first i removed the Butt plate, and took my Dremel with a sanding wheel and rounded that RIDICULOUS edge off, then touched it up with Cold Blue, I played around with Memory foam and filled the U Shape Crescent then installed the Lace up, This Butt Plate was so sharp it would have Cut Through the Leather lace up Pad if I hadn’t of Rounded that sharp edge off. The Lyman Great Plains “Hunter” is on top here, TC Hawken on Bottom

The Riflings in this Gun are DEEP and SHARP, This Concerned me, But it does NOT effect accuracy at all, This rifle is a DARN good shooter! Here you can see the Scars on my Brass Cleaning Jag from the Riflings in this Gun

Me being use to 28” Green Mountain Barrels and TC Hawken, Renegade stocks, This rifle is looooong :shock:

Here is a Typical Group with this Gun, I can honestly say i have NEVER had a bad outing with this Rifle, She shoots :yeah: And this thing is not picky, I have shot several different Paper Patched, and Grease Groove bullets through it, As long as i do my part, the rifle does it’s! :yeah:

Like i said, It took some time for the Rifle to Grow on me, and if it hadn’t of shot so well i would have gotten rid of it. After the few Modifications i made, i learned to really like this Rifle :yeah:

 

[long shot]

what does it do at 500?

 

[Idaholewis]

what does it do at 500?

I have never shot this Lyman 54 Cal past 100 yards. I would NEVER get there with this Lyman 57GPR Tang peep, I’m not even sure i could get 300 yards? The front Globe sight is the Lyman 17AEU For the GPR Rifle (European Dovetail) the sight height is .464, With a 100 Yard Zero i am using up half of my 57 Peep elevation. I wish the Lyman 17AHB came in a European Dovetail, the AHB is Lyman’s shortest Globe at .404 high, That would bring my peep down quite a bit and allow me more elevation. I could make 1 fit, but just haven’t bothered. I prefer my 45s for long range stuff

 

[Idaholewis]

I am confident This Bullet would do it if i had the Sight for it, And the care to absorb the Recoil

A Custom Slick PP Mold i had made for 54 Cal, Bullet on the left is 650 Grains, Right Bullet is 515

 

[long shot]

I like the 650

 

[Baccummba]

Only know of one fellow that offers a quality kit in long range rifle. It is as 52 bore stated his name. The fit on the breach and tang is unreal. It almost snaps together

To Whom are you referring? What do those kits typically go for?

@idaholewis

Thanks for the data and input! You may have sold me on the Lyman Great Plains rifle!


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[Baccummba]

I see that there’s a few calibers floating around for these style of rifles but a lot of chatter is favoring the .45 over the .50, .52, and .54 calibers.

Is there any particular reason for this or is the .45 just a flatter shooting round?


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[52Bore]

I see that there’s a few calibers floating around for these style of rifles but a lot of chatter is favoring the .45 over the .50, .52, and .54 calibers.
Is there any particular reason for this or is the .45 just a flatter shooting round?
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I've never seen a 50+ win any LR competition against a 45 with a heavy conical.
Read up on Whitworth, he did years of trials for the British Gov't - more than just small bore rifles.

 

[Baccummba]

Ah I see. I’ve heard the name and watched CapAndBall’s video with the .451 target rifle.

Interesting stuff, especially considering that many LR rifles nowadays are closer to .30 cal


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[52Bore]

Whitworth trials were decades before Nitrocellulose powder..

 

[52Bore]

I'll pull up an older post.. about these.
'one of the best' - just changed the title to: 'The Best'

 

[GM54-120]

Pedersoli does have a couple other fast twist 45s that are cheaper than the Gibbs such as the Tryon. Those will still cost you $1200 or more.

You might check with Doc White and see what he has in Sporting Rifles atm. They are not cheap either but cost less than a Gibbs.
http://whitemuzzleloading.com/sporting-rifle/

 

[Idaholewis]

Pedersoli does have a couple other fast twist 45s that are cheaper than the Gibbs such as the Tryon. Those will still cost you $1200 or more.

You might check with Doc White and see what he has in Sporting Rifles atm. They are not cheap either but cost less than a Gibbs.
http://whitemuzzleloading.com/sporting-rifle/

GM54, I remember we talked about this awhile back (Available Fast Twists) and it seemed like you posted a link to a Fast Twist Sidelock That Pedersoli makes for Cabelas?

 

[Idaholewis]

Only know of one fellow that offers a quality kit in long range rifle. It is as 52 bore stated his name. The fit on the breach and tang is unreal. It almost snaps together

To Whom are you referring? What do those kits typically go for?

@idaholewis

Thanks for the data and input! You may have sold me on the Lyman Great Plains rifle!


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Baccummba, I dont think you would be disappointed with the Lyman Great Plains Hunter Rifle

I wish now i had gotten a .50 Cal Lyman Great Plains Hunter Instead of the .54, At the time i bought my Lyman GPH in .54 Cal i had been Looking RELENTLESSLY for a Green Mountain LRH (1:28 twist) Drop in barrel in .54 Cal, it seemed i was chasing a Ghost? I looked for nearly 2 years DAILY and I couldn’t find one, I contacted Green Mountain to make sure they had actually made a .54 LRH? Sure enough they had! That gave me hope, But finding one proved to be more than a challenge! I finally gave up and bought the Lyman Great Plains Hunter 1:32 Twist .54 Cal, And wouldn’t you know it, Just after buying the Lyman I was doing my Daily Gun site search and i found a brand new unfired Green Mountain LRH Barrel in .54 Cal on Gunbroker on a “Buy it now” Needless to say i own that barrel Both the Lyman and the Green Mountain LRH are DEFINITE keepers! The Green Mountain LRH .54 Cal barrel was affectionately named “My White Whale”