Lube for BH209

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Does anyone have an opinion of which lube for blackhorn shooting a cast bullet. Should it be for smokeless or black powder
 
My understanding is that BH209 is more akin to smokeless than black powder. So, when I switched to BH a few years ago, I went with LBT blue lube, normally used for smokeless centerfire ammo, and it has always worked fine. That is, except for the fact that I despise the process of applying it (pan lubing) and then the mess that it makes when I size the bullets. Maybe other brands are not so sticky? I have always wanted to make my own lube and have gathered all of the ingredients to do so, but never got around to it. I get the impression that many home bullet casters actually enjoy the lubing process, but I am not one of them!
Have you heard of the relatively new tumble lube process called Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL)? If not, do a search on it - many centerfire shooters are using it with cast grease groove bullets with both smokeless and black powder and reporting great results. The process of mixing and applying it are VASTLY easier IMHO than regular wax type lubes. I have been wanting to try it for some time and recently got to it. At my last range session three weeks ago, the results were very promising. It was a mild winter day with only a little wind and temps averaging 40 degrees.
I cast my own .50 cal conicals, 416 grains with wide flat noses. After shooting a few rounds at reduced loads, checking for any abnormalities like leading or high pressure, I moved up to my regular hunting load of 100 grains of BH209. Shooting a total of five three-shot groups at 100 yards with two different scoped rifles, an NEF Sidekick and a TC Omega, they ranged from 2-1/4" down to 1-1/4", with just one unexplained flyer that was 2-1/2" out of its group. This accuracy was very consistent with what I was getting with my former lube. Then, I set up a 200 yard target and got a 2-3/4 " group with the Omega, my best ever. All of this shooting was done without any wads, which I intend to try in the future. There was no sign of leading in the bores nor any other irregularities. My chronograph quit working early in the going, but velocities should have been in the 1700+ fps range.
I was very pleased with these results and am preparing for my next range session, to see if the BLL works as well as the first time. Has anyone else tried BLL in their muzzleloaders?
 
goco4game said:
My understanding is that BH209 is more akin to smokeless than black powder. So, when I switched to BH a few years ago, I went with LBT blue lube, normally used for smokeless centerfire ammo, and it has always worked fine. That is, except for the fact that I despise the process of applying it (pan lubing) and then the mess that it makes when I size the bullets. Maybe other brands are not so sticky? I have always wanted to make my own lube and have gathered all of the ingredients to do so, but never got around to it. I get the impression that many home bullet casters actually enjoy the lubing process, but I am not one of them!
Have you heard of the relatively new tumble lube process called Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL)? If not, do a search on it - many centerfire shooters are using it with cast grease groove bullets with both smokeless and black powder and reporting great results. The process of mixing and applying it are VASTLY easier IMHO than regular wax type lubes. I have been wanting to try it for some time and recently got to it. At my last range session three weeks ago, the results were very promising. It was a mild winter day with only a little wind and temps averaging 40 degrees.
I cast my own .50 cal conicals, 416 grains with wide flat noses. After shooting a few rounds at reduced loads, checking for any abnormalities like leading or high pressure, I moved up to my regular hunting load of 100 grains of BH209. Shooting a total of five three-shot groups at 100 yards with two different scoped rifles, an NEF Sidekick and a TC Omega, they ranged from 2-1/4" down to 1-1/4", with just one unexplained flyer that was 2-1/2" out of its group. This accuracy was very consistent with what I was getting with my former lube. Then, I set up a 200 yard target and got a 2-3/4 " group with the Omega, my best ever. All of this shooting was done without any wads, which I intend to try in the future. There was no sign of leading in the bores nor any other irregularities. My chronograph quit working early in the going, but velocities should have been in the 1700+ fps range.
I was very pleased with these results and am preparing for my next range session, to see if the BLL works as well as the first time. Has anyone else tried BLL in their muzzleloaders?
Click to expand...
Is the BLL like Alox? Does it fill the grooves on the conical?
 
Alox is one of the two ingredients in BLL. If you apply it correctly, which is extremely sparingly, it does NOT fill the lube grooves, and can barely be seen. Seriously, the stuff seems too good to be true - it defies logic in how easy it is to apply, and how well it works. I can post the recipe tonight.
 
Here's the recipe for the tumble lube called "Ben's Liquid Lube", BLL. I checked into it and found out the recipe changed slightly in early 2017, due to the main ingredient no longer being manufactured. An alternative has been located and is working fine. There are now three ingredients:
- 30% Lee Liquid Alox or Xlox (leeprecision.com)
- 35% Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax (available at a hardware store like Ace)
- 35% Odorless Mineral Spirits or Naptha " "
- Combine ingredients in something like a plastic ketchup bottle, add a couple of 1/4" nuts to help with agitation, and shake thoroughly; no heating required. The proportions are not set in stone; it's OK to vary them as needed. The mixture should pour like Coke out of a bottle. If it's too thick, add more mineral spirits and shake.
If the Alox has been sitting for a while, it is normal for it to have thickened considerably. Soaking the bottle of Alox in hot water will thin it out.
- Take a plastic margarine bowl and add a very few drops of BLL. Right now I'm using four drops BLL per ten .50 cal conicals of 416 grains. Gently roll the bullets around until evenly coated, for about one minute. Remove with some type of tweezers and stand upright on wax paper. Logic may tell you that that is not nearly enough lube, but resist the temptation to add more. You are NOT trying to fill the lube grooves, just a light coat on the bearing surfaces. Upon close inspection, you can barely see any coating on the bullets at all. If there are any droplets accumulating on the wax paper, you're using way too much.
- Let dry overnight
- Size bullets (if necessary)
- Apply a second coat, dry, and shoot!
Some caveats:
- I only have limited experience with this. I have only shot muzzleloading bullets using this lube method one time, and the results were excellent. However, if you try it, proceed with caution. Start with reduced amounts of powder and work up slowly, always checking for abnormalities like high pressure, bore leading, etc. Hopefully, acccuracy will be as good as with standard wax type lubes. Do a search for Ben's Liquid Lube to learn more. There are lots of rave reviews about the process being used for cartridge shooting of all calibers, in all kinds of temperature ranges, both handgun and rifle, at velocities even exceeding 2500 fps. I have found almost no info on using it in muzzleloaders, however, so I look forward to further experimentation with it. Don't see any reason why it shouldn't work well. If it does, it will GREATLY reduce the aggravation I experience with pan lubing and then sizing. Give it a try and report on your results!
 
goco4game said:
Here's the recipe for the tumble lube called "Ben's Liquid Lube", BLL. I checked into it and found out the recipe changed slightly in early 2017, due to the main ingredient no longer being manufactured. An alternative has been located and is working fine. There are now three ingredients:
- 30% Lee Liquid Alox or Xlox (leeprecision.com)
- 35% Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax (available at a hardware store like Ace)
- 35% Odorless Mineral Spirits or Naptha " "
- Combine ingredients in something like a plastic ketchup bottle, add a couple of 1/4" nuts to help with agitation, and shake thoroughly; no heating required. The proportions are not set in stone; it's OK to vary them as needed. The mixture should pour like Coke out of a bottle. If it's too thick, add more mineral spirits and shake.
If the Alox has been sitting for a while, it is normal for it to have thickened considerably. Soaking the bottle of Alox in hot water will thin it out.
- Take a plastic margarine bowl and add a very few drops of BLL. Right now I'm using four drops BLL per ten .50 cal conicals of 416 grains. Gently roll the bullets around until evenly coated, for about one minute. Remove with some type of tweezers and stand upright on wax paper. Logic may tell you that that is not nearly enough lube, but resist the temptation to add more. You are NOT trying to fill the lube grooves, just a light coat on the bearing surfaces. Upon close inspection, you can barely see any coating on the bullets at all. If there are any droplets accumulating on the wax paper, you're using way too much.
- Let dry overnight
- Size bullets (if necessary)
- Apply a second coat, dry, and shoot!
Some caveats:
- I only have limited experience with this. I have only shot muzzleloading bullets using this lube method one time, and the results were excellent. However, if you try it, proceed with caution. Start with reduced amounts of powder and work up slowly, always checking for abnormalities like high pressure, bore leading, etc. Hopefully, acccuracy will be as good as with standard wax type lubes. Do a search for Ben's Liquid Lube to learn more. There are lots of rave reviews about the process being used for cartridge shooting of all calibers, in all kinds of temperature ranges, both handgun and rifle, at velocities even exceeding 2500 fps. I have found almost no info on using it in muzzleloaders, however, so I look forward to further experimentation with it. Don't see any reason why it shouldn't work well. If it does, it will GREATLY reduce the aggravation I experience with pan lubing and then sizing. Give it a try and report on your results!
Click to expand...
This BLL lube is absolutely SUPERB !!!! I will never use any other lube again !!!!!
 
GM54-120 said:
Looks like that wax has very little carnuba in it
https://media.lifeandhome.com/media/downloads/3718/42904286_MSDS.pdf
Petroleum Distillate Cas. No. 8030-30-6500ppm< 85%
Turpentine Cas. No. 8006-64-2 100ppm < 25%
Click to expand...
Lol i knew you were lurking !!!! Good morning and Happy New Year Gm54--120 !!!!
I love this BLL lube , to stay on topic . I think you would too for anything you want to shoot a conical out of . I bet on a jacketed bullet too at least with bhorn . I bet on a tight sabot too . It is NICE !!!
 
goco4game said:
Here's the recipe for the tumble lube called "Ben's Liquid Lube", BLL. I checked into it and found out the recipe changed slightly in early 2017, due to the main ingredient no longer being manufactured. An alternative has been located and is working fine. There are now three ingredients:
- 30% Lee Liquid Alox or Xlox (leeprecision.com)
- 35% Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax (available at a hardware store like Ace)
- 35% Odorless Mineral Spirits or Naptha " "
- Combine ingredients in something like a plastic ketchup bottle, add a couple of 1/4" nuts to help with agitation, and shake thoroughly; no heating required. The proportions are not set in stone; it's OK to vary them as needed. The mixture should pour like Coke out of a bottle. If it's too thick, add more mineral spirits and shake.
If the Alox has been sitting for a while, it is normal for it to have thickened considerably. Soaking the bottle of Alox in hot water will thin it out.
- Take a plastic margarine bowl and add a very few drops of BLL. Right now I'm using four drops BLL per ten .50 cal conicals of 416 grains. Gently roll the bullets around until evenly coated, for about one minute. Remove with some type of tweezers and stand upright on wax paper. Logic may tell you that that is not nearly enough lube, but resist the temptation to add more. You are NOT trying to fill the lube grooves, just a light coat on the bearing surfaces. Upon close inspection, you can barely see any coating on the bullets at all. If there are any droplets accumulating on the wax paper, you're using way too much.
- Let dry overnight
- Size bullets (if necessary)
- Apply a second coat, dry, and shoot!
Some caveats:
- I only have limited experience with this. I have only shot muzzleloading bullets using this lube method one time, and the results were excellent. However, if you try it, proceed with caution. Start with reduced amounts of powder and work up slowly, always checking for abnormalities like high pressure, bore leading, etc. Hopefully, acccuracy will be as good as with standard wax type lubes. Do a search for Ben's Liquid Lube to learn more. There are lots of rave reviews about the process being used for cartridge shooting of all calibers, in all kinds of temperature ranges, both handgun and rifle, at velocities even exceeding 2500 fps. I have found almost no info on using it in muzzleloaders, however, so I look forward to further experimentation with it. Don't see any reason why it shouldn't work well. If it does, it will GREATLY reduce the aggravation I experience with pan lubing and then sizing. Give it a try and report on your results!
Click to expand...
Goco4game thank you for sharing this BLL lube and its recipe !!!! This stuff works great !!!! I used it on a modified pp hb 400gr knurled up over bore sized .001 to .002 bullet for a 410 White with 90gr of T7 3f . Pure lead too with 1 in 16 twist . This load is a "Hot One" in that rifle , max loading is 100gr . I got 1 ragged hole groups @ 100yds , my best ever for a conical . Oversized i pushed it on down and shot them . I highly reccomend this lube as i got no leading and tremendous accuracy with BLL . I could not do this load before using this lube . I bet this load is around 200 fps faster than tbe previous best load with no leading and yet better accuracy . No joke . Im sold !!! Thank you for finding this and sharing it . !!! Youre my hero !!! Lol , just "Kinda kiddin".....thanks.....Sideshow
 
Last edited:
Sideshow said:
Goco4game thank you for sharing this BLL lube and its recipe !!!! This stuff works great !!!! I used it on a modified pp hb 400gr knurled up over bore sized .001 to .002 bullet for a 410 White with 90gr of T7 3f . Pure lead too with 1 in 16 twist . This load is a "Hot One" in that rifle , max loading is 100gr . I got 1 ragged hole groups @ 100yds , my best ever for a conical . Oversized i pushed it on down and shot them . I highly reccomend this lube as i got no leading and tremendous accuracy with BLL . I could not do this load before using this lube . I bet this load is around 200 fps faster than tbe previous best load with no leading and yet better accuracy . No joke . Im sold !!! Thank you for finding this and sharing it . !!! Youre my hero !!! Lol , just "Kinda kiddin".....thanks.....Sideshow
Click to expand...
Sideshow, glad to hear about the excellent results, but I will defer any accolades to the originator, "Ben", of the recipe and process. I have yet to achieve the accuracy you're getting, but I keep striving for that magical moa group. At least I took my first animal with a BLL bullet in September, a nice buck antelope at about 80 yards.
Now I would just like to hear reports of others using BLL in their muzzleloaders.
Happy New Year to all!
 
goco4game said:
Sideshow, glad to hear about the excellent results, but I will defer any accolades to the originator, "Ben", of the recipe and process. I have yet to achieve the accuracy you're getting, but I keep striving for that magical moa group. At least I took my first animal with a BLL bullet in September, a nice buck antelope at about 80 yards.
Now I would just like to hear reports of others using BLL in their muzzleloaders.
Happy New Year to all!
Click to expand...
Try fitting that conical tight like i did . Copy me and see what happens. Good luck and Happy New Year to you too !!!
 
Couldn't you just use Lee's Alox period?
Or am I missing something?
I've seen guys shooting 45-70 useing just the Alox.:think:
 
knightnut2000 said:
Couldn't you just use Lee's Alox period?
Or am I missing something?
I've seen guys shooting 45-70 useing just the Alox.:think:
Click to expand...
Many shooters have been using straight Alox for decades and swear by it, but one disadvantage is the bullets come out sticky. With Ben's Liquid Lube, I won't say that the bullets are completely dry, but just a little "waxy" feeling. They sure slide smoothly through my sizing dies though, with zero cleanup necessary.
 
Sideshow said:
Goco4game thank you for sharing this BLL lube and its recipe !!!! This stuff works great !!!! I used it on a modified pp hb 400gr knurled up over bore sized .001 to .002 bullet for a 410 White with 90gr of T7 3f . Pure lead too with 1 in 16 twist . This load is a "Hot One" in that rifle , max loading is 100gr . I got 1 ragged hole groups @ 100yds , my best ever for a conical . Oversized i pushed it on down and shot them . I highly reccomend this lube as i got no leading and tremendous accuracy with BLL . I could not do this load before using this lube . I bet this load is around 200 fps faster than tbe previous best load with no leading and yet better accuracy . No joke . Im sold !!! Thank you for finding this and sharing it . !!! Youre my hero !!! Lol , just "Kinda kiddin".....thanks.....Sideshow
Click to expand...
Sideshow,
You're the first person I have heard of using BLL on knurled straight-walled bullets. I have wondered if it would work. Since I make my own tapered molds on quite crude equipment, it is very difficult and time consuming to accurately cut the traditional lube grooves. Cutting a straight-walled mold would make the process considerably easier and faster.
Also, I am of the opinion that an alloy harder than pure lead is advantageous for better penetration on elk-sized game. If shooters are having good success with knurling and sizing down jacketed and even all-copper bullets, why wouldn't this also work well with straight-walled lead alloy bullets with BLL? It would then be easy to experiment with varying degrees of hardness to get the desired amount of expansion versus penetration.
Alas, so many ideas and so little time and money to explore them!
 
goco4game said:
Many shooters have been using straight Alox for decades and swear by it, but one disadvantage is the bullets come out sticky. With Ben's Liquid Lube, I won't say that the bullets are completely dry, but just a little "waxy" feeling. They sure slide smoothly through my sizing dies though, with zero cleanup necessary.
Click to expand...
The Bullshop NASA lube is also quite sticky
 
Ok guys has any one used Ben's Red lube for grease groove bullets and if so does it work or not. I read that Ben used his Ben's Red to pan lube some bullets then used his BLL on top of that to like seal the Red in. Not sticky then. I also read he has used BLL over factory factory lube bullets with success. Any more input here?
DL
 

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