Matryoshka doll but with sabots?

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Dogfood

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Hi all,
Still new to modern muzzleloaders and trying to wrap my head around an idea that I can't shake.
Within the realm of practicality, how far down could someone sabot their projectile from the bore diameter. To put it another way, if one started off with a .54 cal bbl and got a sabot which would bring the bullet size down to .50, and then repeated the process with another sabot going from the now .50 to .45, at what point would that just be silliness?
Alternately, with the right (presumably custom-made) sabot, is there any reason why a .54 or .50 would not perform adequately well with saboted .32 or .36 bullet?
Thanks. You guys are great.
Cheers,
Ken
 
Hi all,
Still new to modern muzzleloaders and trying to wrap my head around an idea that I can't shake.
Within the realm of practicality, how far down could someone sabot their projectile from the bore diameter. To put it another way, if one started off with a .54 cal bbl and got a sabot which would bring the bullet size down to .50, and then repeated the process with another sabot going from the now .50 to .45, at what point would that just be silliness?
Alternately, with the right (presumably custom-made) sabot, is there any reason why a .54 or .50 would not perform adequately well with saboted .32 or .36 bullet?
Thanks. You guys are great.
Cheers,
Ken
Not sure if this will completely answer your question but I know of some " Duplex sabots " .45/.40/.357 & I'm pretty sure there are duplex sabots for .50/.45/.40 sabots that avail as well. Thats about the extent of my knowledge with duplex sabots. Hope I've helped out a lil. This is a fantastic forum & resource, so I'm sure others much more familiar & indepth with them & their extent in options avail. I've heard that one can have custom sabots made, but it's very expensive.
 
Just to show you support as a fellow newbie, I've wondered the same thing.
Thats the way its done in MML. Welcome to you both, this is the best muzzleloader/shooting/hunting/competing/building etc. There are many experts in here that are always willing to help all that ask & no one is treated as stupid bc they dont know something or understand something & are asking for help. That I appreciate seeing.
 
The more plastic between bullet and bore....The more problems arise. PR sells a 50x45x357 duplex sabot. The inner 45x357 sabot is not quite your typical sabot. The base is flat and not concave like other sabots.

Getting a 45cal to shoot vs trying to make a 50cal shoot with smaller caliber bullets is easier and cheaper.
 
Not sure if this will completely answer your question but I know of some " Duplex sabots " .45/.40/.357 & I'm pretty sure there are duplex sabots for .50/.45/.40 sabots that avail as well. Thats about the extent of my knowledge with duplex sabots. Hope I've helped out a lil. This is a fantastic forum & resource, so I'm sure others much more familiar & indepth with them & their extent in options avail. I've heard that one can have custom sabots made, but it's very expensive.
I'll look into those duplex sabots. Thanks. I'd like to be able to shoot as much as I can and the less powder and the smaller the projectile the more I'll be able to.
 
The more plastic between bullet and bore....The more problems arise. PR sells a 50x45x357 duplex sabot. The inner 45x357 sabot is not quite your typical sabot. The base is flat and not concave like other sabots.

Getting a 45cal to shoot vs trying to make a 50cal shoot with smaller caliber bullets is easier and cheaper.
Thank you for the explanation. It makes nowsense that there'd be a goldilocks zone of amount of sabot one would want around one's bullet.
I think I'll look in the direction of getting a 45cal then. I live in Ohio where nothing gets too big or too dangerous and there's not really any restrictions on what one can hunt small game with.
I have an Optima V2 in 50cal at present but am looking to upgrade. From what I understand 45cals are far less common presently. Any recommendations for a midtier priced 45?
 
If i was going to buy a break action 45cal fast twist right now.....I would have a CVA Hunter 45/70 converted to a ML. Anything else will cost as much or more and wont have a steel frame. Its either that or wait till you see a good deal on old stock or used.

If you got the cash....Either a Knight UtraLite 45 or the Woodman Arms Patriot in 45. Both will set you back $900+.
 
If i was going to buy a break action 45cal fast twist right now.....I would have a CVA Hunter 45/70 converted to a ML. Anything else will cost as much or more and wont have a steel frame. Its either that or wait till you see a good deal on old stock or used.

If you got the cash....Either a Knight UtraLite 45 or the Woodman Arms Patriot in 45. Both will set you back $900+.

Excellent information. Thank you. I now just have a weigh how important it really is to me to squirrel hunt with an inline 😁
I'm off the Center Punch USA's website to give them a look.
 
Dog, Find yourself a nice little 32or 36 caliber flintlock round ball gun to hunt squirrels with. Once you master that you will never look back
 
Dog, Find yourself a nice little 32or 36 caliber flintlock round ball gun to hunt squirrels with. Once you master that you will never look back
The TC Seneca & Cherokee would be the ticket for that, Traditions makes a .32 & Pedersoli has a .32 reproduction . All are sidelocks not flints tho.
I have a TC Seneca with a .40cal 1:37 twist Hoyt rebore. I can shoot cast lead .401 conicals & pistol bullets & jacketed 10mm pistol bullets from 135gr-200gr. I absolutely love the lil smoker.
 
The TC Seneca & Cherokee would be the ticket for that, Traditions makes a .32 & Pedersoli has a .32 reproduction . All are sidelocks not flints tho.
I have a TC Seneca with a .40cal 1:37 twist Hoyt rebore. I can shoot cast lead .401 conicals & pistol bullets & jacketed 10mm pistol bullets from 135gr-200gr. I absolutely love the lil smoker.
Nine, Your Seneca sounds like a great little versatile gun. In the old days hunting squirrels with a gun of larger bore size and heavy bullet wht. I read in a book they would shoot under the squrrels to try and hit the limb and kill the squirrel. The point being not to ruin the animal for eating. They called the procedure barking the squirrel. I never tried it but I had a nice little 36 cal. Kentucky rifle with a beautiful curly maple stock with fond memories shooting squirrel. Should have kept that gun.
 
Nine, Your Seneca sounds like a great little versatile gun. In the old days hunting squirrels with a gun of larger bore size and heavy bullet wht. I read in a book they would shoot under the squrrels to try and hit the limb and kill the squirrel. The point being not to ruin the animal for eating. They called the procedure barking the squirrel. I never tried it but I had a nice little 36 cal. Kentucky rifle with a beautiful curly maple stock with fond memories shooting squirrel. Should have kept that gun.

My Grandfather called it “Bark Shooting” Squirrels
 
My Grandfather called it “Bark Shooting” Squirrels
My grandfather used a shotgun. I wasn't alive when he could really shoot. By my time he had lost his right eye in a railroading accident and had to learn to shoot off his left shoulder. He was right handed. I never saw him shoot a rifle while hunting. Grandpa was born in 1886. All his guns are still in the family. My brother has the 1912 model 12 Winchester grandpa won the 1927 Indiana State Trap shoot with. The gun has the old chamber size 2 -5/8 length. Todays 12 chambers start at 2 3/4 That old gun is almost black in color .My dad told me he thought that gun had probably killed a box car full of rabbits and squirrels. I have my dad's model 12 Win. I used it after I got big enough to shoot it. I've said enough
 
Nine, Your Seneca sounds like a great little versatile gun. In the old days hunting squirrels with a gun of larger bore size and heavy bullet wht. I read in a book they would shoot under the squrrels to try and hit the limb and kill the squirrel. The point being not to ruin the animal for eating. They called the procedure barking the squirrel. I never tried it but I had a nice little 36 cal. Kentucky rifle with a beautiful curly maple stock with fond memories shooting squirrel. Should have kept that gun.
Yeah man I love the Seneca & it's versatility. I have to run the jacketed 10mm pistol bullets down to .397 & I use lubed felt wads & T7fff. It has peep sights too. I haven't shot traditional sidelocks in many a moon so the buttplate curve for shooting traditional stance & outside the shoulder pocket on the bicep got to bruise & suck purdy fast. I'm a metal worker & all round purdy handy feller so I took 5/8" out of that curve & re shaped the brass. Much better now.
I'm still gonna get a .32 PRB sidelock though.
My fathers side is hillbillies from Wva Pa Western Md. As a child in the 60's & teen in the 70's I spent many hrs listenin to the old timers talkin & tellin stories, shooting together out the back field. I've heard them talk about havin .50 cal sidelocks to hunt with & a dbl barrel shotgun. So they all had " Barkin the squirrel " & headshot stories on squirrel, rabbit,coons, bobcats, groundhogs etc. I've seen them shooting crowd off the corn at 100yds with .50 Hawken & Pa style sidelocks. Old timers like them are few n far between, I miss them & those days.
 
I to remember some of those older long bearded men target shooting their extremely long barreled guns while laying down and shooting across a log. It got real serious when they got down on their hands and knees on the ground measuring and judging who shot the best group. I think those folks are all gone know except for our memories. Winning a turkey or a ham or side of beef was the thing.
 
I to remember some of those older long bearded men target shooting their extremely long barreled guns while laying down and shooting across a log. It got real serious when they got down on their hands and knees on the ground measuring and judging who shot the best group. I think those folks are all gone know except for our memories. Winning a turkey or a ham or side of beef was the thing.

Apparently there is a dedicated over-the-log club down where I just moved to in SW Ohio. 46" bbls and shrouded front sights. Seems quite niche, but also quite interesting. If I take the plunge and join, I'll let you know how it went.
 
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