Muzzleloader Max Loads.....maybe not what you think!

[GM54-120]

Your right GM54, I did read that wrong. But CVA still claims not to shoot a saboted bullet over 300grns.

Yes but they are totally ok with a 3 pellet load and a 348gr Powerbelt.
http://powerbeltbullets.com/Triple7-pel ... 0yards.php
It makes no sense.

 

[Grouse]

In my opinion only, if you need to exceed 120grns by volume of Black Powder to kill your game you really should look into smokeless muzzleloading. If you stick to basics, the learning curve is easier with smokeless then black powder.

But I bet the average ML shooter doesn't exceed 90grns by volume of black powder.

 

[GM54-120]

The majority of my BH209 loads are 110gr. Ive got a couple 54cal 120gr loads with a 300gr bullet and a couple more i shoot sabotless in a 45cal. My 52cal did like 130grV with a 300gr or 325gr bullet.

Normally the only time i exceed 110grV for a hunting load is because accuracy is better. Ive experimented with hotter BH209 loads in my Pacnor 45 barrel but its a beast of a barrel. I don't recommend doing it in mass production rifles.

 

[ENCORE50A]

In my opinion only, if you need to exceed 120grns by volume of Black Powder to kill your game you really should look into smokeless muzzleloading. If you stick to basics, the learning curve is easier with smokeless then black powder.

But I bet the average ML shooter doesn't exceed 90grns by volume of black powder.

Although there is a push by a select few to promote smokeless propellants in muzzleloaders, IMO its far to dangerous for the majority. Quite evident by the numbers of exploded barrels and injuries each year.
There's no reason one has to use smokeless to harvest game and certainly not because of long range hunting.

 

[GM54-120]

I bet the majority of my SML loads make less pressure than your 3 mag pellet loads. Most of mine don't even break 40kpsi. Pretty much none of mine break 35kpsi with sabots.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I bet the majority of my SML loads make less pressure than your 3 mag pellet loads. Most of mine don't even break 40kpsi. Pretty much none of mine break 35kpsi with sabots.

Kind of a mute point when the custom rifle and barrel I shoot, is rated for much higher pressures and most of all, safe to do so.

 

[long shot]

Here is a fact, 150 grn is not needed nor 2500 fts. to take deer or 90% of North American Game. All Muzzle Loading loads are also based on charges by volume. Even BH209. Shooters need to stop worrying about speed

 

[Squeeze]

It really depends on what you shoot. The big lead guys go for a slow lob, and are fine with under 1500fps. The new generation guys like jacketed bullets and speed, that's where the max load and pushing boundaries start happening.

 

[sabotloader]

It really depends on what you shoot. The big lead guys go for a slow lob, and are fine with under 1500fps. The new generation guys like jacketed bullets and speed, that's where the max load and pushing boundaries start happening.

Thanks for bringing this point to print! And I agree with you - I do prefer speed vs slow. I am shooting a 200 grain Lehigh at 2200 fps and really do value the FPE and time to target with that bullet and of course the Terminal Performance.

At one time and during our ML season I am forced to go back to a Bull Shop 460 gr. lead conical. I hunted with this for several years before I was taken to the 'dark side'. Since making the switch to lead free bullets I would not return to lead except during the mandatory ML season.

One of the reasons I made the switch, beside flatter trajectory, time in flight, and FPE is that I hunt all season with a ML - never even get my center fires out anymore. So during regular rifle season I am trying to be more competitive with the rifle guys..

 

[bestill]

I think thats cool part of muzzleloading such variety to accomplish a accurate rifle.
For me high velocity blackhorn and sabotless shooting is it.
I maybe clueless but over last few years ive built7 customs and the consistency of blackhorn and sabotless is at a level above everything else except true smokeless gun.
7 guns zero scope at 100 yds and all use same load and same drop chart to 500 yds and ding yardage specific silhouette target.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I think thats cool part of muzzleloading such variety to accomplish a accurate rifle.
For me high velocity blackhorn and sabotless shooting is it.
I maybe clueless but over last few years ive built7 customs and the consistency of blackhorn and sabotless is at a level above everything else except true smokeless gun.
7 guns zero scope at 100 yds and all use same load and same drop chart to 500 yds and ding yardage specific silhouette target.

+1 thats why a fast twist with blackhorn and parkers have become my favorite load for target or gong shooting .
It is not needed for hunting so for those whom blackpowder is just a way to extend the season or hunt only then its a mute point .

 

[long shot]

To me kind of takes fun out of it. I would just as well use center fire rifle, fire it, wipe off, put back in corner. It always seems to come back to speed and sml.

 

[bestill]

For me it's about consistency and accuracy and i truly enjoy it.
Center fire rifle would work but not legal in Indiana.
I can pull out my Muzzleloader in firearm season and hunt from mid November to early January there's my bonus.

 

[sabotloader]

For me it's about consistency and accuracy and i truly enjoy it.
Center fire rifle would work but not legal in Indiana.
I can pull out my Muzzleloader in firearm season and hunt from mid November to early January there's my bonus.

+++++ really correct... except mine starts mid October to mid December - unless I draw a late Elk tag...

 

[long shot]

Thing here is this has nothing to do with max Loads. I know two rifles that shoot right along with BH209 using only 94 grns. Swiss

 

[sabotloader]

Thing here is this has nothing to do with max Loads. I know two rifles that shoot right along with BH209 using only 94 grns. Swiss

Swiss is a great powder - hard to come by in most places - but undoubtedly the best of the best real Black Powders. But if you sit down and analyze it there are some tremendous advantages to BH for the majority of the average ML hunters across the US.

And another fact the pressure curves created by BH have less peak pressures than Swiss with a similar weight projectile - yet BH will create more velocity because of its progressive burning properties with the heavier projectiles...

A Swiss pressure curve is not included on this chart, but good information is shown.

 

[long shot]

who do you work for ? I don't need convinced about BH209 , but it seems to me every thread ends up mine is better no middle ground. The statement more consistant is not so. This sight always argues over who's is best and any other need not apply. Forget long range , no one needs 2300 fts to kill deer at less than 200 yds. so why the push if black or any sub will work at what has been stated , 100 yd. is average range.

 

[Grouse]

You can't compare any powder to BH209!! It's in a class all by itself.

 

[long shot]

For me it's about consistency and accuracy and i truly enjoy it.
Center fire rifle would work but not legal in Indiana.
I can pull out my Muzzleloader in firearm season and hunt from mid November to early January there's my bonus.

thanks bestill

 

[sabotloader]

who do you work for ?

I am thinking that you might be addressing me, so I will answer - nobody I am retired and really old. What's more I do not even shoot BH - I have shot it quite a bit of it - but basically I shoot GOEX and T7 both 2f and 3f. BH is to expensive for my shooting. But it is still probably one of the best powders out there if you can use it.

I don't need convinced about BH209 , but it seems to me every thread ends up mine is better no middle ground. The statement more consistant is not so.

Each site member has his or her own preferences and hopefully the preferences they have chosen have proven themselves to each member that used what they use. The guy and gals caught in the middle are the rookies coming here for direction. I think we all try very hard to steer them to what works well for us. And very few of us totally agree on everything.

None of this makes your choice of Swiss any less correct for you and anybody else that choose to use it or any other powder. It does ruffle feathers when you challenge all other that your way might be the best way. And in most cases people on this sites prefer their choices versus some one else's.

Your point blank remark that: Here is a fact, 150 grn is not needed nor 2500 fts. to take deer or 90% of North American Game. All Muzzle Loading loads are also based on charges by volume. Even BH209. Shooters need to stop worrying about speed is often viewed as a challenge to what ever other people might do. Your fact is certainly a fact but it is not the choice of others. And I can only speak for myself but I honestly do prefer velocity to slow on most all occasions. Also at this time there numbers members here that do not use volume measure at all anymore - weighing is becoming more popular all the time. I am not one of them, I much prefer 'volume' but we can not always assume that 'volume' is the type of measurement being discussed.

I also believe that is what is driving the Modern ML market at this time - it is not what we could do but more what can we do to move to greater efficiency for each one of us. If the past was good enough we would not make a future and that is probably not the American or modern man way. Man has always strived to improve on everything they do - it is a carrot extended in front of or noses and we keep reaching.

This sight always argues over who's is best and any other need not apply.

There are certainly some folks on here that way but you really need to look and see if somebody else's statement caused the reaction.

Forget long range , no one needs 2300 fts to kill deer at less than 200 yds. so why the push if black or any sub will work at what has been stated , 100 yd. is average range.

Depending on which bullet you might be using velocity can be a factor and I would add depending on what animal you might be hunting and in what kind of terrain can be a factor in the need for velocity.

Let me ask this - why do you use Swiss versus the most common BP GOEX? The majority of BP hunters, shooters, Rondy users shoot GOEX out here.

Hope some of this makes some sense to you.