Need someone to convert them 700ml to .40 or .45

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Blackpowder8bore

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I have bought a Remington 700ml that a guy with a shop told me he would convert for me but he failed to keep his word because " so much more better stuff is out now" (within the month) that it was beneath him to convert a Remington 700ml. So I need someone to convert a Remington muzzleloader to a .45 nitro muzzleloader,or at least swap the barrel if I provide it. I can have bolt conversion done and get McGowen or Brux barrel prefit just need a person with the tools and know how to hook it up.

Please help.
Will pay your price.
 
Contact Bestill on this site.

By the way this forum is really closed. You would get better traffic on your post in the Smokeless section above this one.
 
Some builders get cautious when they see a potential customer talking about wanting to shoot EXTREME loads in rifles not well suited to those loads. The RemUML you bought is far better suited to really heavy loads once converted to a 45cal than a Rem700ML conversion. The RemUML has locking lugs and the ability to use LRMP modules that are much better for some types of loads.

Quite frankly some of the loads ive seen you post would make me very cautious.
 
I thought this site was closed for over 10 years but apparently not. I liked this site, Ric Bibby (RB), now deceased, was a great source of information on this subject.
 
As I was contemplating having a current muzzleloader converted to smokeless,the only loads I know are ones two well known builders/shops have told me was possible as a top load with a conversion. The only two loads I know about are the MAXIMUM loads I inquired about for a Rem700ml conversion and UML conversion. 2600/3100 respectively.
Anyone that builds such a conversion wouldn't be shocked.
Why do people develop cartridges if not for more velocity etc. "EXTREME" to me connotates "over max". One wouldn't load their 30-06 over max pressure,that's unsafe,and these are firearms, not snowboards or dirtbikes. There's no room to argue between "extreme" and "unsafe" .

Although I see no reason to use a pricey SML conversion conservatively...so if it can run 300@3100 and stay within pressure limits,why not use it to it's comfortable extent.

Anything else regarding loads was a QUESTION.

I've talked to several places I'm just trying to learn more.i enjoy modern muzzleloading.great site.
 
Thank you for your advice. Yes, that dude knows his stuff and is really advanced in this venue of the muzzleloading sport.
How do I move topics,just make a new one?
 
Sorry but there are tons of reasons to shoot more typical speeds with smokeless such as cost, reduced recoil and ease of cleaning. You can certainly reach the extreme end safely in a "over built" rifle and very large amounts of powder like 4895. There is not much room for error at the high upper end. Just a 15lb increase in loading pressure can see a huge jump in peak pressure. Combine that with a relative newbie to the smokeless ML world and its a recipe for user error.

That why people like Hankins have a tried and true load or two that are known to be safe in his builds. 209s are not the best for huge loads of slow burning powder and heavy bullets. It certainly can be done but a lugged action with LRMP offers a little more safety. Also rifles shooting those really upper end loads are very heavy contour barrels and often longer barrels. Lots of fun on the bench but lugging around a 14lb+ rifle sucks.

As for your loads, you posted very heavy loads of BH209 in 2 OEM factory rifles with 300gr+ bullets. That tells me right off the bat you dont care about recommended max data. You like to push the envelope and even do it in rifles not well suited to the load or powder.
 
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Interested in performance is my reason. But I'm really not trying to argue about reasons to shoot typical speeds or whatever.
I haven't posted any over max data anywhere...and when I did post any numbers it was about what other people told me to and I was asking people on the forum about. And it's comical you said to say the loads were extreme so go to this person or that person. I didn't make those loads up, they came from experts.

And nobody's rifle was that heavy that I heard of, but I like a 9-10 lb piece ok.esp hunting.
And as far as blackhorn 209, I use 150 in all my guns except my UML..which REMINGTON told me it would take 200 grs powder but I'd only go with lighter bullets.
And you show me some recommended max data in any of the manuals for the OEM rifles I posted "very heavy 209 loads with 300+ grain bullets" for.
Im not doing anything unsafe,or pushing any envelopes. Doesn't matter what people think they know about what i care about! Im here to talk about muzzleloaders!!It's comical, The people that you lauded as great builders didn't even do EXTREME things. They had knowledge to build safe high performance guns,and did. That could be construed as extreme but not unsafe. I'm here to learn about stuff I don't know about not go on about stuff I DO know about like pressures and what's safe in MY guns. If I'm using it in my guns,it's safe,has been researched,called about,and is proven.Couldnt care less what anybody else thinks.

Anything else is a question.

Ok be safe thx bye
 
I mean if I can't post in smokeless muzzleloading forum because I don't pay to contribute,and need info..I guess I need to figure out the cost to learn the info I need.
 
And as far as blackhorn 209, I use 150 in all my guns except my UML..which REMINGTON told me it would take 200 grs powder but I'd only go with lighter bullets.

That is not an approved load in ANY production ML from Knight, CVA (currently available) or Traditions (ever). You are very wrong if you think it is. Post up a link showing 150gr of BH209 is approved by Traditions or Knight. Remington does not even support the use of BH209 at all. It been proven to be hard on the breach plug and they no longer warranty plugs damaged by using BH209. They approve of Pyrodex, Triple7 and real black. All in FFG granulation or pellets. I dont think even Westerns load data for the RUML goes that high.

Straight out of the Traditions manuals for Vortek models
150gr of real BP or Pyrodex
130gr of Triple7 (100gr max in the Strikerfire manual)
120gr BH209 with upto a 300gr bullet. (newer manual only)

Couldnt care less what anybody else thinks.

And that my friend could very well be why you are now having a hard time getting someone to build your Rem700ML into a rifle that will shoot a 300gr bullet that fast. That was the entire point i was making. Just a fyi, i do own a custom Savage Pacnor 45cal smokeless and a custom New Ultra Light Arms M209 50cal smokeless so yeah i rather familiar with what they can do.

Talk to Elkman1310 on the Hankins rifle board about "over building" a Rem700ML to get you into the range you want. He has done it and knows what it requires. He can at least give you the details of whats needed and may know who would build it for you.
 
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As far as the Remington Ultimate, when a writer took it upon himself and hyped up BH209 for shooting in the Remington Ultimate, Western was given a rifle to test. Western's testing indicated that 160grs by VOLUME, or 112grs by WEIGHT, is the maximum for the Remington Ultimate. NOT 200grs of BH209.
However...……. Gm54-120 is 100% correct, that Remington will no longer warrant any RUM if it is known to have been shot with BH209, and, that they had to many problems with breech plugs.

What I understand from some very well versed shooters, who shoot both smokeless and BH from custom rifles, is that maximum charges, in general, never produce the tightest groupings.

Note: I do not imply to be any type of an expert on shooting smokeless propellant. However, I do know about the two Ultimate muzzleloaders.
 
Yeah 160gr or 150gr was posted at one time in one of the blogs from Western. It has since been removed or i just cant find it. Currently they still say 120gr is max in everything mass produced. Its been years since they started working with Rem and we still dont have any RUML only approved data. That in itself is a huge clue.

Im my Savage Pacnor 45 with a small shank 27" barrel i stopped at 140gr sabotless. The contour is quite heavy even though its a small shank. That load produces way less peak than my smokeless loads but its really rough on vent liners. Ive got a bushing plug now for it. Ive just never gotten around to shooting any BH209 out of it after the plug upgrade. In that rifle im comfortable shooting loads close to 275gr@2800fps with 4198. I could get more speed with 3031 if i really wanted i guess especially with a 300gr. I just dont have any need to shoot them faster. I simply dont need 458Win Mag type performance to kill deer and i dont have a brake on mine either.

Ive called Western and in over built customs they implied anything over 160gr is pretty much a waste of time and powder. That was their recommended max in anything with upto around a 300gr-325gr bullet. You want to be even more careful once you start to get into bullets over 350gr. AJ traced some 350s with heavy amounts of BH209 that still looked fairly safe in custom builds.
 
I have a couple saved emails from Western's techs about their testing on the RUM. Yup, they stopped at 160grs volume. They may have pulled the info for the RUM at Remington's request???
Just glad that Luke fixed the BH issues in both rifles.
 
That is not an approved load in ANY production ML from Knight, CVA (currently available) or Traditions (ever). You are very wrong if you think it is. Post up a link showing 150gr of BH209 is approved by Traditions or Knight. Remington does not even support the use of BH209 at all. It been proven to be hard on the breach plug and they no longer warranty plugs damaged by using BH209. They approve of Pyrodex, Triple7 and real black. All in FFG granulation or pellets. I dont think even Westerns load data for the RUML goes that high.

Straight out of the Traditions manuals for Vortek models
150gr of real BP or Pyrodex
130gr of Triple7 (100gr max in the Strikerfire manual)
120gr BH209 with upto a 300gr bullet. (newer manual only)



And that my friend could very well be why you are now having a hard time getting someone to build your Rem700ML into a rifle that will shoot a 300gr bullet that fast. That was the entire point i was making. Just a fyi, i do own a custom Savage Pacnor 45cal smokeless and a custom New Ultra Light Arms M209 50cal smokeless so yeah i rather familiar with what they can do.

Talk to Elkman1310 on the Hankins rifle board about "over building" a Rem700ML to get you into the range you want. He has done it and knows what it requires. He can at least give you the details of whats needed and may know who would build it for you.

Hey thanks for the "over builder"guys info.Not really having trouble finding a builder anymore. I didn't know I was wanting to be "overbuilding" a rem700uml into SML, considering the speeds I mentioned came from THREE of the most prolific manufacturers of SMLs. They build the best, they know the most,and they already gave me info and told me what it requires,and they get EVERYBODY into the range they want. I just looked on anothers website and there's a row of beautiful custom SMLs that do the same speed. It's HILARIOUS the couple of people here are saying "this"or"that" is too fast or overbuilt and you have NO IDEA what people I have learned this information from to begin with! IIdidnt make it up;I learned it and would not ever deviate up from the load data given me by such an expert in SMLs.THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL AND ONLY TOPIC OF AND REASON FOR MY POST HERE.

My loads in regular ML "magnums" don't have anything to do with anything. I don't see how it's relevant,considering when I bought my Traditions and Knights there was no regulatory body or official standards in the bp/sub ML sport, and there still isnt.
Except the little they put on a 209 can.
The one guy is right, the higher loads aren't the most accurate.
But really, the BP sub ML loads from some other post arent really important here. Those guns were manufactured in an unregulated,non standardized environment and propagated as 150 gr "magnum" muzzleloaders bought insporting goods stores or from someone else, not handed to me an item of magnificence thousands of dollars later by an expert builder with load data ingrained on the wall of my skull,not to stray from.

All I know about the reg BP ml data that was rehashed is that all my rifles are 4140,stainless,or 1137, and I know why they're better than carbon steel.

Someone was mentioning 112 grs of bh209.the 209 bottle gives 120 grain loads,but I know a little bit about how 209 behaves in a big bore centerfire,and it's not tooo far off what RE26 does.
With no BP ml standardization,I listen to knowledge,math,experience,safe first shots,and people that I know know.

Thank you for your input,I am glad for all first hand knowledge and I am happy you responded.
 
.........Someone was mentioning 112 grs of bh209.the 209 bottle gives 120 grain loads...……....

Not certain, but the 112grs vs 120grs on the bottle you mentioned, may have been misread/misinterpreted. It was in relation to the capabilities of the Remington Ultimate or the Ultimate Firearms rifles ONLY.

The 112gr by WEIGHT (160grs volume) is the maximum charge of BH in ULTIMATE rifles only. The bottle does say 120grs VOLUME is a maximum, which would be 84grs by weight and is for all other production muzzleloaders.

***The above charges can not be used in production muzzleloaders.***
 
What would you call a Brux #17 modified contour like Hankins uses then? Its 1.20+" for at least 5". That is certainly over built for safety reasons. You wont see the vast majority of Savage builds shooting loads that hot even with the heaviest contours available unless they remove the nut. You can figure in a slightly longer powder column too if you want to go with slower powders than 4198. You wont safely reach 3000fps with a 300gr and 4198 so slower powders will be needed. 78gr 4198 and a 275gr is already over 50kpsi. Your peak and fall will be slightly further down the shank with the slower powders and it too will be around 50Kpsi if you are searching for 300gr@3000fps

Guys like Richard are using even larger/heavier barrel contours to achieve those speeds with 4198 in rifles that are basically bench guns. Those loads are approaching 60kpsi and are even hard on LRMP systems.

So yeah its a very good idea to have a "over built" rifle if your intent is the extreme end of 300gr SML load data. Its a very good idea to use the RUML vs using the old Rem700ml for that application too. The LRMP system simply handles those kinds of pressures better and the lugged bolt offers some other benefits. These are not whimpy builds, you probably wont be shooting these kinds of loads in a Sendero contour if you have any sense. My barrel alone weighs 5lbs+ and its nowhere near the shank OD or length of a Brux #17
 
What would you call a Brux #17 modified contour like Hankins uses then? Its 1.20+" for at least 5". That is certainly over built for safety reasons. You wont see the vast majority of Savage builds shooting loads that hot even with the heaviest contours available unless they remove the nut. You can figure in a slightly longer powder column too if you want to go with slower powders than 4198. You wont safely reach 3000fps with a 300gr and 4198 so slower powders will be needed. 78gr 4198 and a 275gr is already over 50kpsi. Your peak and fall will be slightly further down the shank with the slower powders and it too will be around 50Kpsi if you are searching for 300gr@3000fps

Guys like Richard are using even larger/heavier barrel contours to achieve those speeds with 4198 in rifles that are basically bench guns. Those loads are approaching 60kpsi and are even hard on LRMP systems.

So yeah its a very good idea to have a "over built" rifle if your intent is the extreme end of 300gr SML load data. Its a very good idea to use the RUML vs using the old Rem700ml for that application too. The LRMP system simply handles those kinds of pressures better and the lugged bolt offers some other benefits. These are not whimpy builds, you probably wont be shooting these kinds of loads in a Sendero contour if you have any sense. My barrel alone weighs 5lbs+ and its nowhere near the shank OD or length of a Brux #17

I was thinking of a 6-7 lb barrel,like about a 1.250x5 with a .900 end. End weight of anywhere between 8.5 to 11 lbs is ok by me.
No you're right, the ones using the 50-55k loads @highest velocity are cf actions or UMLs. I think it's generally agreed top end for a Savage conversion or rather, Savage strengthening is like 2600.

I remember what you said about .404Jeffery performance with sabots and I think that or heavy slower WinMag performance wouldn't be a bad idea in Alaska or something,with great bears. That and two shots.
 
I think you may get a little heavier on your build than
you think. I have a ML2Brux45@25" small shank no brake with Boyd's Thumbhole stock. Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44 in Vortex tacticl rings, DI plug. Weight is 11.2lbs. Not sure, I'm not a builder, other than my own. Shooting 300gr bullets at 2650fps.
 
That is a good safe range. Around 2600fps max with a 300gr in a MLII conversion. Its probably possible for a bit more with something like 3031 vs 4198. A Rem700ML conversion with a 1.20"+ x 5" can go a bit higher but for max loads the Rem CF action or RUML is a better way to go. Just dont go with RemAge if you want max strength. RemAge prefits are not stronger than a MLII 45 barrel. Its nearly the same contour and barrel OD.
 
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