New CVA wolf questions MIDWAY USA purchase fired?

[Half-Cocked]

Walmart was selling the wolf. I am also pretty sure all the Walmarts pulled all the guns and ammo due to the riots.

I looked online and cabelas has the wolf in stainless. I think this is with the Konus 32mm scope which turned out to be an ok scope. I understand those packages are seldom what the customer wants. Or not the passionate gun nut customers. I would want stainless. I also would not go into the checkout line without opening the package. Not after getting two bad ones. This is out of stock online but is available at some stores.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cva...ion-50-caliber-muzzleloader-with-scope-combos

Yeah that's the one I was looking at. The only problem is it's $120 more but it might be worth it. I could try Detroit and see if they have anything but I'm not sure.
The gunsmith I went to had tons of guns not a lot of muzzleloaders. A few six shooter pistols in black powder that's it.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Have you shot either rifle? I think you would find that they will shoot fine and be reliable hunting rifles.

 

[redear]

Gabpan, my cva scout 45-70 which has been converted to a smokeless muzzleloader has a bore that looks like that, and yesterday I shot a 3/4" group with it at 104 yds. after finding the load it likes. I did scrub the bore with a cleaning jag and patch loaded with some jb bore paste, which allowed the bullet or sabot to feel smoother going down the barrel. as far as a muzzleloader in this price range cva is a good gun. I would push a bullet down the barrel with breech plug out and see how it feels, I would give it a chance but thats me.

 

[redear]

gabpan I have a satainless wolf, a cva hunter 20 ga. slug gun and a cva scout 45-70 thats been converted into a sml muzzle loader and I really like all three of them. they have all been great shooters once I found the right load for them which always seems to take some time and effort, but thats part of the journey.

 

[redear]

I watched your video gabpan and I think CVA may not be cleaning the lube or fluid out of the barrel from when they pulled the rifling button through there, and then it hardened and gunked up the barrel. If it was mine I would take the barrel off the gun and clamp it to a bench etc and get to cleaning the bore up and then I would polish it with jb bore paste. CVA also has a habit of leaving oil in the scope mount holes in the barrel too which I always have to degrease etc. clean that sucker up, hoppes number 9, a cleaning jag, a bag of patches, a bore brush, jb bore paste. try not to get cleaning crud in the threads of the breech plug.

 

[redear]

I did see some tiny metal shavings etc. from the rifling process but I think you'll be ok unless that stuff corroded the barrel and there is only one way to find out and that is to clean it. when I polished my wolf bore I made about 150 passes with the bore brush with cleaning patch wrapped around it and the patch had jb bore paste on it. I think I actually did this twice. have killed several deer over 150 yds with it since.

 

[brownisdown]

Gapan,send me a pm message to brownisdown.

 

[Half-Cocked]

Have you shot either rifle? I think you would find that they will shoot fine and be reliable hunting rifles.

No I haven't shot either rifle and to tell you the truth they might be very accurate being the way they are.
If they were regular smokeless powder rifles I would be annoyed but less concerned. If they have a dip in them that collects black powder that's just going to lead to rust because it would take just that much more to get it 100% clean again.
I have put in so many hours I may keep one. It's literally painful. Imagine if you had J-B weld on a couple of the grooves in your rifling.
Here's the process. Copper brush down the bore. Followed by a swab. More swabs until clean. Then a visual inspection revealing the lands are still dirty. Steel wool treatment next. Followed by copper brush. Swab. Again began to removr more dirt. visually inspect barrel to see that it's not clean but getting better.
That should give you some idea what I'm going through. In addition to purchasing different brushes different cleaners different oils.
At this point I'm so invested I might as well keep one. Here's what I plan on doing I'm going to go ahead and clean the tar out of the one that I'm working on until the range is open up here in Michigan. Once that happens I'm going to fire this thing. Several times. I'm going to take a look at my grouping. Which is going to be a pita because I have to sight in my scope as well. But mainly and most importantly I'm going to go home and I'm going to clean the rifle and see if crap still keeps getting caught in those three grooves in the rifling. If crap is still getting caught in those three grooves then I know for sure they were machined deeper and not concentric to the other grooves.
it's important to remember the three gunsmith saw this and didn't want to touch it. Their recommendation was send it to CVA.

 

[Half-Cocked]

Gapan,send me a pm message to brownisdown.

Done

 

[Half-Cocked]

I did see some tiny metal shavings etc. from the rifling process but I think you'll be ok unless that stuff corroded the barrel and there is only one way to find out and that is to clean it. when I polished my wolf bore I made about 150 passes with the bore brush with cleaning patch wrapped around it and the patch had jb bore paste on it. I think I actually did this twice. have killed several deer over 150 yds with it since.

The metal shavings are all gone thanks to the steel wool. The rest of the rifling looks absolutely beautiful like most of my other guns. I like immaculate rifling. The inside of my other guns looks like look like polish chrome wheels you'd see on a high-end competition car.

someone once told me in the military they run a rag through your rifle and if it comes out gray you're not going out for leave.

this is the way I've just always learned to clean my rifles and I keep them clean after I shoot them. I have never had this much issue with a new rifle.

After cleaning this thing I'm starting to think that you're 100% correct whatever CVA uses for machining the left on there and it got dried and hardened to something that's a nightmare it's like J-B weld. the real b**** of it is when you're looking at it it looks like those dirty grooves are deeper and that's why they're not getting clean.

They talk about don't fire your gun until you've clean the barrel? this is about a hundred times worse!

I love the fact that I'd had three gunsmiths shaking their head! And this isn't a little mom-and-pop gunsmith shop. I got a good tip this is where all local law enforcement goes down to have their gun serviced. Where do guys go to pick up their other accessories and fun toys. In short these guys are pros.

 

[MrTom]

Quit the bitching and shoot it [or them] or return the product and go buy something with a shiny bore made by a different company. I find it absolutely stupid to be barking about a non problem with two guns yet considering buy another identical to those. Either you have an agenda to find fault with CVA or you are the kind of nut that would find fault with a spanking new Weatherby.

All muzzleloaders new from the box need to be shot 50 to 100 times to be completely broken in yet none of these Wolf models you have handled have seen a primer popped before you're crawling down the maker's throat and finding faults that don't exist until you can PROVE it a problem thru shooting.

 

[Half-Cocked]

I'm neither nut nor this is a non problem. Frankly I find your comments offensive.
The gun itself has issues when 3 gunsmiths look at it and shake their head it's got issues. I wouldn't call that a non-issue.

On top of that you got to call a spade a spade no sugarcoating it. 2 rifles to defects two distinct issues.
If I wanted to prove they've been fired I do a powder test.

The issue is if you don't understand clearly black powder corrodes rifles. If this was manufactured crappy. Black powder is going to get caught in a groove that can't get clean easily? Do you understand that? If you don't understand how that could be an issue I can't help you see.

In addition let me ask you this when you go to purchase something like a rifle do you expect to spend hours cleaning it? If you do you must purchase all your stuff from the same guy I got mine from.

This just shoot it and see attitude is crap. Sure I could just shoot it and see and sure it might shoot straight does that make it any less of a pain in the ass and I had to clean it for the last 2 weeks for an hour a day no! Now do you get that?

now hopefully you can understand why somebody who bought a brand new product would be not bitching but informing other people on a forum also may be seeking advice since they're new to muzzleloaders.

I can list off the number of guns that I fired and own and not one of them have a barrel like this one and it just so happens that two in a row came to me this way. Now do you understand that?

after trying to understand all the things that I just said can you understand why somebody might be a little bit upset? I'd hardly call that a nut.

matter of fact I'd either be rich or a nut to say screw it cost $200 but whatever if it's used or defective who cares.

 

[Half-Cocked]

Quit the bitching and shoot it [or them] or return the product and go buy something with a shiny bore made by a different company. I find it absolutely stupid to be barking about a non problem with two guns yet considering buy another identical to those. Either you have an agenda to find fault with CVA or you are the kind of nut that would find fault with a spanking new Weatherby.

All muzzleloaders new from the box need to be shot 50 to 100 times to be completely broken in yet none of these Wolf models you have handled have seen a primer popped before you're crawling down the maker's throat and finding faults that don't exist until you can PROVE it a problem thru shooting.

I forgot to include your quote.

 

[wmdbowman]

The two common rifling techniques are button rifling and cut rifling. There are advocates of both. Barrels are first drilled with a special deep hole self centering drill that has oil running thru it's center. Next the barrel is reamed to bore diameter with a reamer full length. After that the rifling is done with a pull thru button as they call it or cut with a pull thru cutting tool that generally take several passes. The cut barrels are always lapped which smooths and polishes the inside Lands/grooves. The CVA ML barrels are lapped and tend to run about .0005 to about .001 larger in calibers compared to barrels made in the US. I don't think their center fire barrels are lapped ,but don't know for sure. All of our better US barrels are lapped , I think to help break in.
The better barrel makers in the US are Pac Nor, McGowen, Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, Green River, and so on. Factory guns will all shoot some better than others unless the quality control guys screw up. It does happen regardless who makes the firearm.
There used to be a few guys around that could freshen up old muzzle loading barrels by re cutting and or boring oversize to a larger caliber and recutting, but I don't know anymore that's been a number of years ago for me.

 

[GM54-120]

CVA ML barrels are button rifled using equipment they got through Ed Shilen iirc. Other than the barrels branded "Bergara" ive seen no evidence that are all lapped or polished. Ive seen no evidence they are air guaged afterwards either which is an important step after any polishing.

You want to see some rough as a cob barrels.....run a scope down a Savage barrel. Some look as bad as a corncob.

 

[Half-Cocked]

CVA ML barrels are button rifled using equipment they got through Ed Shilen iirc. Other than the barrels branded "Bergara" ive seen no evidence that are all lapped or polished. Ive seen no evidence they are air guaged afterwards either.

You want to see some rough as a cob barrels.....run a scope down a Savage barrel. Some look as bad as a corncob.

Do you know if it's all their barrels or just the bergara barrels that are button rifled that way?

Looks like I answered my own question sorry. According to this yes they are.

If the wolf uses the same barrel as optima.

 

[wmdbowman]

This CVA gun in question! If it were mine I would scrub the heck out of it with some J-B Bore Bright, Clean it out with Hoppes, dry it, Check that all sights are tight, load it properly and shoot the hell out of it. And then let someone else shoot the heck out of it. Then make a decision good or bad.
My 2 cents from an old shooter. Hope it works out for the better.

 

[MrTom]

now hopefully you can understand why somebody who bought a brand new product would be not bitching but informing other people on a forum also may be seeking advice since they're new to muzzleloaders.

What I understand quite clearly is that you've been given tons of advice yet here you are not using any of it and slamming the guns maker. Take this to the gun maker, nobody here can give you what you need. All you do is ***** even when excellent advice been offered.

And on the cleaning.....I have tons of guns, most of which I not long shoot. And I can easily spend a couple hours doing regular barrel wiping and normal un-fired maintenance on them. I do the same with all of my muzzleloaders, recently fired or not. I accept this as part of my responsibility as a gun owner. If had any gun that required an hour a day for two weeks of cleaning and not having been fired I would return it to the place of purchase and find another gun maker to make a purchase.

Its obvious you do not want to use any of what's been offered as far as help goes, you just want to carp and take aim at CVA. Try loading it and take aim at your foot so we can share the pain. Don't shoot those Wolfs. Return them and go buy a Thompson or a Knight.....see if any issues follow them.

 

[Smyrnagc]

I believe this topic has run it's course and is now locked. The OP got plenty of good advice in the first three pages of this post so he should be able to make an educated decision.

Last week several posts were deleted for company bashing and now it is getting real close to bashing again, without naming specific companies. So...Locked it is!