New guy new gun...help

[Tidbit824]

Guy & gals, looks like Doc White is gonna hook me up with one of his "Whites" a Bison 504....now here are the questions:
1. This is a true "504"? Right...meaning i purchase .504 conical bullets to shoot in this rifle?
2. What would be a good starting powder & load?
3. Can i load the conical onto the powder or do i need a wad?
4. This uses a # 11 cap...right?
5. Now i can also shoot .451 conicals with a sabot? Yes

Sorry about all this but i want to get ahead of any problems.
Thx to all of you for helping me out & keeping me safe.

Thx to all,
Tid

 

[Tidbit824]

Not one person responded...not ONE.
Thought ur guidelines were to help the new guys: well, i'm a new guy. No help
No comnents
No nothing.
Another sight where the 20 or 30 guys are talking to each other and not caring for the new guy who asks simple questions because he does not have ur knowledge.
Thanks for nothing.

 

[Slingingslugs]

Tidbit I would help if I could but I don't know nothing about the whites. From what I've seen on the forum I don't understand why you didn't get a response. Someone help!

 

[ourway77]

I had one years ago I ordered bullets from one of the main lead muzzleloader bullet sights do a web search Put in .504 lead bullets I shot 70 grains (volume) of 777 powder Black horn was not available then But I guess 70 grains (volume) and work up At 84 that is about all I can tell you Do a search on the sight I am sure you can find more info

 

[bloodhound]

I also know nothing about White MLs...but I think you might have posted in a spot that the White guys don't look at often. Try this

DWB - White Muzzleloaders

Still Modern Muzzleloader site, but a spot where you are likely to get a little help.

Sorry that is all I have...never owned a white, I hear that they are a premium ML. Congrats on your purchase and good luck with your questions.

 

[MTY]

I am a fairly recent addition to the site. I read you original post, but know nothing about what you were asking. However, I did wonder why it was not posted in the White section. Welcome aboard, mellow out, these guys have helped me tremendously. My requests for help have not been as specific as yours, I am a little on the cheap side, and I am using a decades old muzzle loader.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

1) i dont have any White .50 cals so idk
2)try to start with real black powder. If you can find some. 70grn ffg under a 300 to 460 grain pure lead conical.
3)an overpowder wad may be beneficial as it protects the bullet base. Sometimes they shoot better with, sometimes better without.
4)Yes it should use a #11 cap. 209 primers aren't needed for real black powder. There are 209 conversion kits for Whites but you wont need one.
5)Yes you could shoot a saboted .45 bullet or even a .40, but why would you want to when big hunks of lead can be so accurate and knock the snot out of whatever you hit with it.

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from Oklahoma. You could take your questions to the sub forum for inline rifles.

 

[toytruck]

Guy & gals, looks like Doc White is gonna hook me up with one of his "Whites" a Bison 504....now here are the questions:
1. This is a true "504"? Right...meaning i purchase .504 conical bullets to shoot in this rifle?
2. What would be a good starting powder & load?
3. Can i load the conical onto the powder or do i need a wad?
4. This uses a # 11 cap...right?
5. Now i can also shoot .451 conicals with a sabot? Yes

Sorry about all this but i want to get ahead of any problems.
Thx to all of you for helping me out & keeping me safe.

Thx to all,
Tid

Just saw this...
Yes, use .504 sized or.503 conicals
Yes, use a wad between powder and bullet.
Yes, #11 caps, I like Remington Magnum or RWS.
I like triple seven 2Fg loose powder in my .504 guns. 90 gr.is my load.
I have never used a sabot in my white's, but I don't see why you can't use it with a .451 bullet.
Post in the DWB section will get faster response. Not to mention deer season has started, so most of us are hunting now!

 

[edmehlig]

Just saw this as well. What I would do is order some bullets from NoExcuses. They can make you up a sample pack of different sizes so you can see what diameter bullet fits your rifle better. Like Steve aka "Toytruck", stated a lot of us like to use an oversized Wad between the powder and conical. That means you would use a 54 cal Wad. This helps to seal the bore better to prevent any gases from escaping between the conical and bore. Plus it helps protect the base of the bullet and in a lot of cases improves accuracy. Whether or not it improves the accuracy of your rifle, you would have to experiment and find out for yourself. If you decide to start casting your own bullets. I would order this mold that IdahLewis designed.
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds Depending on what size bullet your rifle likes from the Sample Pack from NoExcuese, you can have the 50-415I mold adjusted to the diameter your rifle likes better.

Everything that Toytruck stated in his reply is spot on.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out. Like Toytruck stated you would get faster responses if you posted them in the DWB forum.

Ed

 

[sdporter]

Guy & gals, looks like Doc White is gonna hook me up with one of his "Whites" a Bison 504....now here are the questions:
1. This is a true "504"? Right...meaning i purchase .504 conical bullets to shoot in this rifle?
2. What would be a good starting powder & load?
3. Can i load the conical onto the powder or do i need a wad?
4. This uses a # 11 cap...right?
5. Now i can also shoot .451 conicals with a sabot? Yes

Sorry about all this but i want to get ahead of any problems.
Thx to all of you for helping me out & keeping me safe.

Thx to all,
Tid

I have a handful of Doc’s guns. As suggested above, go with a No Excuses 460 grain, or a Bullshop 400+ grain (I don’t shoot them so I don’t know the exact grain they come in) anywhere between 70-110 grains of propellant, should find you a good accurate load.
I personally would stay with 400 grains or higher in bullet weight, but that’s just me, I don’t like to chase wounded game around the hills.
Pretty much any black powder or black powder substitute (except BlackHorn 209) should do well in that rifle.

 

[Tidbit824]

Good morning,
I wish to apologize to the group as a whole for what might have come across as a poor post. Forgive me as i was just surprised that nobody had answered my request.
I do realize that we are all busy and that deer season has started and sometimes we just wait because someone else will answer.
Please accept my apology for what may have
appeared as rude behavior.
I thank each and everyone one of you.

May God bless,
Tid

 

[edmehlig]

No apology is necessary and welcome to MM.
I would start off probably around 65-70 gr of 777-2F and work your way up. To see what gives you the best accuracy. I think the bullet you want would be the 465 gr from NoExcuse. If you are going to get involved in casting your own then I would try that 415I bullet on the AccurateMolds website and have it adjusted to what you feel is the width you want.
Also being you are buying the rifle directly from Doc, ask him what powder and charge he would recommend.

 

[snapbang]

If your interested Ill sent you 8-10 of the 450 grain hollow point in the pic below. They come from Mr Hollowpoint and he sizes them to .503 for me. He will size to whatever you want and has other bullet styles to choose from. May take a look at No excuses bullets also. The 450 HP shoot great in my Knight Elite 1/28 with 80 or 100 grains of T7, a wad, and 209. Oh, and the 545 and 620 shoot great also. I just dont have any T-Rex to hunt here in Michigan. If I were elk hunting I think one of those would be my choice.

 

[bulletbusiness]

Call me (Dave...801-675-5113) at No Excuses bullets. I own a dozen White rifles in every caliber they made. Been casting bullets for my Whites (and other muzzleloaders) for more than 20 years. I'd be glad to walk/talk you thru what I have learned about my white rifles.

 

[deermanok]

No worries brother. Wish I could offer some advice but I'm more of a traditional muzzleloader guy and don't know anything about White rifles.

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

sorry for your experience. my only ML is a wallhanger Baker rifle. i have had only good experiences with this site.

 

[T444M]

Hey Brother same here. I know ”of” Whites and that’s where it stops, lol
My experience is Savage ML2 and Black powder side locks.

 

[J2SHORTT]

Second the NO excuses same pack. Even if your gun says .504 your specific bore could vary from others. By getting a sample back you can find out the exact size that works the best for your specific rifle.