New smokeless build

[Pathfinder60]

I recently inherited a Remington 700 in .223. Matte black finish receiver and barrel, synthetic stock. I'm considering having it become the basis for a .40 cal smokeless muzzleloader with the Fury 250gr or 275gr .402 Star Tip 2P bullets in mind...but not limited to them. I'd like recommendations on barrel make, length and twist rate as well as builders. This is my first foray into smokeless muzzleloaders but not muzzleloaders as I own a CVA Accura V2 Plains Rifle and a CVA Paramount as well.
I appreciate any help the group might offer.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Im new to sml also. I don’t feel any attraction to a .40 but will be following your build with interest as i have a 700 that i want to rebarrel. Congrats and good luck.

 

[Pathfinder60]

The idea behind the .40 is based on high BC bullets that buck wind well and are deadly out to the 500+ yard range. As I only hunt in Ohio and the .40 is legal here I find it preferential to a .45.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I absolutely see the benefits in .40. I may want one someday.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

If you are not hunting past 500 yards, the 45 may be a better choice due to the great number of projectiles that are now available.

I can shoot a 275 grain Parker BE at over 3000 fps from the Brux 1-20 twist LV (1.200" shank) barrel. Others here have their own favorite bullets.

I like working with Luke at Arrowhead Rifles. They make great parts, and their service is one of the best I have ever seen.

.

 

[Corpe Nimrod]

Following for information as well. Good luck on your adventure and thanks in advance for sharing the experience!

 

[mcdowshr]

HV Muzzleloaders is spot on.
Unless u think u will ever have a need for extreme long range shooting the 40 offers no benefit over the 45.
As a matter of fact many have found the 40 to be quite finicky.
The 45 has proven itself and is very easy to develop loads and is very deadly at 500 yds.
Take a look at Hanks Message Board.
Lots of good information there.

 

[Ballshooter]

Bayou Advanced Weapon Systems

 

[Pathfinder60]

HV Muzzleloaders is spot on.
Unless u think u will ever have a need for extreme long range shooting the 40 offers no benefit over the 45.
As a matter of fact many have found the 40 to be quite finicky.
The 45 has proven itself and is very easy to develop loads and is very deadly at 500 yds.
Take a look at Hanks Message Board.
Lots of good information there.

This is all very interesting. I'm very grateful for everyone's insights and experiences. I'm curious...how have you found the .40 to be finicky in your experience?

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

This is all very interesting. I'm very grateful for everyone's insights and experiences. I'm curious...how have you found the .40 to be finicky in your experience?

One of my customers already had a 40 and wanted me to build him a 45 because he was not pleased with his 40.

I am not sure of all of his reasons, but projectiles were part of the problem.

 

[ENCORE50A]

................................. Unless u think u will ever have a need for extreme long range shooting the 40 offers no benefit over the 45.
As a matter of fact many have found the 40 to be quite finicky.
The 45 has proven itself and is very easy to develop loads and is very deadly at 500 yds.....................

I agree. 40's can be very finicky. That's why I shoot a .45.

 

[GM54-120]

Yes, the 40 is a whole other animal but consider this..........

You can build a 40 to shoot the lighter bullets with much smaller amounts of 4198 and still get over 2400-2500fps. So say you want to shoot a Fury 240gr at roughly 2500fps. That would take about 60gr in a 45cal and you would need sabots. In a 40cal you would only need about 50gr to do the same thing. 56gr of 4198 and a 228gr Pittman will give you around 2800fps....That is a probably pretty hot load btw too. You can use quite a bit less and still break 2500fps. (less than 50gr)

There are several slower powders better suited to 40cal but not everyone needs or wants a BIG BOOMER to shoot a deer. Plan your build around the bullet weight and fps you need to shoot because there are some things you may want to do differently such as powder chamber size. You dont want a 50gr+ powder chamber is you plan on shooting milder amounts of 4198 for example.

 

[mcdowshr]

This is all very interesting. I'm very grateful for everyone's insights and experiences. I'm curious...how have you found the .40 to be finicky in your experience?

Well, this can be a topic that may require more explaining than I have time or room to type but I’ll try to condense it to where it’s understandable.
When most of us began building smokeless mzls we built 45’s because of the bullet & barrel choices that were available. Years of trial and error have all but perfected those 45 caliber guns. It’s relatively easy to build a gun , buy components and get a load recipe from a buddy that shoots remarkably well ( less than half a moa ) out to 500yds.

Then came the 40 cal. There are now great barrels and bullet choices available. So what’s the difference u ask ?

In smokeless mzls most guys smooth form their bullets. These rifles are land riders. That means ( for anyone that isn’t familiar with the term ) the bullet is pushed down the bore only touching the lands. When the powder ignites, the bullet must swell or obturate to cut the grooves in the bullet. After the bullet exits the barrel there is powder fouling left behind inside the bore. The next bullet that is pushed down the bore can be difficult to load because of the powder fouling.

The secret to any good shooting smokeless mzl is finding the right powder that gives the velocity and accuracy without making too much pressure plus burns clean enough so that it’s easy to reload multiple times without the bullet getting tight during loading or stuck in the barrel.

Many including myself are working on the 40 caliber but it is a completely different animal than a 45.
Sorry for the long winded post. I hope it clears things up a little.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Well, this can be a topic that may require more explaining than I have time or room to type but I’ll try to condense it to where it’s understandable.
When most of us began building smokeless mzls we built 45’s because of the bullet & barrel choices that were available. Years of trial and error have all but perfected those 45 caliber guns. It’s relatively easy to build a gun , buy components and get a load recipe from a buddy that shoots remarkably well ( less than half a moa ) out to 500yds.

Then came the 40 cal. There are now great barrels and bullet choices available. So what’s the difference u ask ?

In smokeless mzls most guys smooth form their bullets. These rifles are land riders. That means ( for anyone that isn’t familiar with the term ) the bullet is pushed down the bore only touching the lands. When the powder ignites, the bullet must swell or obturate to cut the grooves in the bullet. After the bullet exits the barrel there is powder fouling left behind inside the bore. The next bullet that is pushed down the bore can be difficult to load because of the powder fouling.

The secret to any good shooting smokeless mzl is finding the right powder that gives the velocity and accuracy without making too much pressure plus burns clean enough so that it’s easy to reload multiple times without the bullet getting tight during loading or stuck in the barrel.

Many including myself are working on the 40 caliber but it is a completely different animal than a 45.
Sorry for the long winded post. I hope it clears things up a little.

Are you smooth-sizing the 40 bullets?

 

[jims]

I have had a .40 SML for I think at least 10 years, It is a PacNor barrel by Ric Bates out of AR. It is on a small shank Savage SML action. I at first used 195 Barnes or 200 SSTs that I rolled between two files to slightly enlarge the size for a better fit.

 

[billyboy*]

Then came the 40 cal. There are now great barrels and bullet choices available. So what’s the difference u ask ?

The next bullet that is pushed down the bore can be difficult to load because of the powder fouling.

The secret to any good shooting smokeless mzl is finding the right powder that gives the velocity and accuracy without making too much pressure plus burns clean enough so that it’s easy to reload multiple times without the bullet getting tight during loading or stuck in the barrel.

Many including myself are working on the 40 caliber but it is a completely different animal than a 45.

Excellent Advice, the .40 Cal Requires Clean & Efficient Burning Powders.

 

[GM54-120]

Many if not all of the slower powders burn best at high pressure. Better burn also helps with a cleaner burn. Plus you need that higher peak to obturate the longer bullets better.

 

[GregK]

The 40 has always been my absolute favorite followed closely by my 358

Greg

 

[Ninering62]

Well, this can be a topic that may require more explaining than I have time or room to type but I’ll try to condense it to where it’s understandable.
When most of us began building smokeless mzls we built 45’s because of the bullet & barrel choices that were available. Years of trial and error have all but perfected those 45 caliber guns. It’s relatively easy to build a gun , buy components and get a load recipe from a buddy that shoots remarkably well ( less than half a moa ) out to 500yds.

Then came the 40 cal. There are now great barrels and bullet choices available. So what’s the difference u ask ?

In smokeless mzls most guys smooth form their bullets. These rifles are land riders. That means ( for anyone that isn’t familiar with the term ) the bullet is pushed down the bore only touching the lands. When the powder ignites, the bullet must swell or obturate to cut the grooves in the bullet. After the bullet exits the barrel there is powder fouling left behind inside the bore. The next bullet that is pushed down the bore can be difficult to load because of the powder fouling.

The secret to any good shooting smokeless mzl is finding the right powder that gives the velocity and accuracy without making too much pressure plus burns clean enough so that it’s easy to reload multiple times without the bullet getting tight during loading or stuck in the barrel.

Many including myself are working on the 40 caliber but it is a completely different animal than a 45.
Sorry for the long winded post. I hope it clears things up a little.

Awesome post, thanks

 

[Ninering62]

Excellent Advice, the .40 Cal Requires Clean & Efficient Burning Powders.

I'm reading & soaking in everything as much & as best as I can with all the .40 SMLrigs & powders. I have an Omega .40 1:14 Brux bein built & lots N lots to learn. Its great reading all of this insight & info.