No 11 vs. Musket Cap vs. 209

[earlthegoat2]

Ok so I am not exactly new but I thought this question would go well in this sub forum.

I see a lot of conflicting info out there. Many MLS are set up for 209 these days. My first ML, a CVA Stagnorn, was so equipped and it worked great, IMO. That Staghorn was an open primer design. I read often of converting open primer design MLs to 209 and that causes a lot of blowback. I have experience with this….but not from my Staghorn. Actually, from a TC Black Diamond and a Knight MK-85.

Many folks recommend sticking with the No 11 or Musket cap with these MLs. This, of course, makes the use of BH209 or pelletized propellants null and void.

I guess my question is, is there really a superior primer? I started on 209 and as such, believed that was the end all be all. More recently, I have discovered the advantages of loose powder, be it Pyrodex, 777, or real black. as such, I have experimented with and researched different priming methods for each.

I am of the opinion that 209 priming may be a solution to a….not so much non-existent problem but rather a problem that I don’t have. That being, pelletized propellant. Even though I started on it, I am loathe to continue using it. I have found a affinity for older style inlines as well and have embraced their “shortcomings”. I like loose powder and No 11s or musket caps. I like Knight MK-85 s and their ilk as well as original DISCs and Rem 700 MLs.

When I hear and read stories about converting TC Bkack Diamonds or Knight MK-85s to 209 primers, often, blowback and dissatisfaction ensue. Many recommend going back to No. 11 or musket caps and say they are just fine...which they are…but it makes you question why 209 was ever developed for inlines to begin with.

 

[deermanok]

I'm guessing that when Blackhorn powder first came out they knew that it needed a very hot primer to reliably ignite it.
I also guess that 209 shotgun primers fit the bill well, costwise.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I agree that the 209 primer in inline muzzleloaders was a solution in search of a problem. Modestly useful for Pellets, but in open breech rifles, blowback is horrendous and the primer doesn't begin to restrict moisture getting to the rear of the charge. Look at how a primer sits in the module/ holder. You can see light ahead of it. Knight full plastic jacket excepted.
11's and musket caps do a far better job of restricting moisture. Wrapping the nipple with plumber's tape an across the powder side of the nipple, does wonders. Blowback is also considerably less.
Its my experience that the least powerful primer, consistent with full ignition of the charge, gives the best accuracy.
209's USED to be easily available. A plus for them. Now, all are not exactly easy to find. Not compared to better days anyway...

 

[robwheeler]

I really like musket caps.

rob

 

[rugerbh103]

To me, 209 was the answer to pellets. Most guys I hunt with insist on pellets. I am the only loose powder shooter in the group.
I also love the early inline designs. I can't shoot BH209 in them, so I see no advantage to going away from #11 caps.

 

[robwheeler]

I like loose Pyrodex P in .45s and select for .50 cal.

rob

 

[mnoland30]

Like you, my first muzzleloader used 209's. Worked fine. When I got back into it, I bought a Kahnke that uses #11 caps. On cold mornings, I sometimes get hangfires, but never a misfire, and never a crud ring using 777. The best cap I've used is Winchester Magnum. I bought a couple of .45 barrels for my Encore, and then an Accura V2 LR .45 a couple of years ago that uses 209. I tried Blackhorn 209 in the Accura. Very easy because it doesn't require swabbing between shots, but no improvement in accuracy, and ridiculous price. I picked up some Black MZ on sale at Sportsman's, and it is cleaner than 777, and shoots the same, but tends to clump. I found some old Federal 410 shotgun primers at the last gun show, and they seem very similar to the special muzzleloader primers. But I've had a couple of misfires in my Encore using them. My Accura is for sale if anyone is interested. $475 to your door in the lower 48. It includes the Blackhorn breechplug.

 

[yoyodoc]

The short version of the story is that my buddy using my Thompson sidelock to teach his kid got the first shot off just fine but the hangfires kept happening (which taught the kid not to flinch). I picked up the propellant flask: BH. Which is not supposed to fire with #11 caps. We had a small stash of pyrodex and the rifle went off just fine after that. Shooting at 50 yards off hand the kid kept nailing the spinner. And 20 grains of powder was plenty to get the power belt down range.