Open letter to CVA Paramount and MRX 1-22 twist rifles

[Mnt monkey]

Dear CVA as a fan of your muzzleloaders I regret to write what I'm about to write, however if someone gets hurt because of others not speaking up I sure would not feel right about that. I've been a big fan of the Acura 50 cal 1 and 28 twist five different rifles I shot each for a year and then I gave them away to help others learn .I was excited about the Paramount 45 Cal I brought one of the first ones to come out shot it a lot,, ended up just putting it in the closet because of the bore dimension's
CVA chose from the beginning to make their 45 bore fit their bullet,, I suppose in a business conceptual sense that seem smart,, I do not think they thought through that concept thoroughly . What will happen when an inexperienced shooter chooses to try a different bullet than the factory recommended bullet,, can an inexperienced shooter rely on the bullet to stay seated firmly on the powder column? And what about some of the paramounts that have such loose bores that even their factory recommended bullet is risky about staying seated? I just purchased a MRX Acura 45 Cal 1 and 22 twist the only bullets I can safely seat in this rifle is the factory 280 eld all other bore riding bullets and even 40 cal bullets in a Sabot are too loose in this rifle. I know I guess many will say send the rifle back the problem is I'm convinced that this problem is not just in the rifle that I brought every Paramount shooter that I've talked to the last couple of years has the same issue an oversized bore I'm convinced all of the Acura 45 Cal rifles that are currently being sold here in America have the same bore dimensions or similar, again if you're only going to shoot their bullet I guess everything might be fine but it seems like there's some issues even with their bullets. The Paramount has enough barrel shank and a strong enough barrel that maybe somebody could get away with the bullet falling off the powder column and still firing the gun, the Acura with the thinner barrel worries me I'm afraid someone is going to lose a hand or an arm.
Again to those at CVA if you change your bore dimensions back to an American 45 cal guess what your bullets will still work in the rifle you can still sell your bullets!!!
I will say this to all of you considering buying one of their 45 Cal 22 twist I would really think hard you're going to be very limited to what you can shoot in that rifle ,,will they shoot the 280-285 elds accurately I believe most of the rifles that you buy will ,,are you going to be able to shoot another bullet in it safely I do not think so and I sure am worried that someone inexperienced buying that rifle is going to be missing a hand. Just my personal opinion but I would not buy that rifle unless you are a very experienced muzzleloader shooter, to those that are I don't think you'll have any problems,it's the inexperience person trying a rifle out new that I'm concerned about.

 

[HC]

It seams that another Recall would be in order.

 

[GM54-120]

Such a shame because they make 45-70 single shots so they have the tooling to do it correctly. At the current pricing you are probably better off getting a new Scout and shelling out the $300ish to have it converted to a ML. CVA dropped the Hunter line and replaced it with a blued Scout. No brake but you get more useable barrel.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I love their 1 and 28 twist 50 cal nothing but praise and success with it I just do not understand why these decisions were made it really just centers around bore dimensions and selling bullets and not having the vision to look forward and see the potential dangers involved

 

[GM54-120]

If the lands are .454 you MIGHT be able to get conicals sized to .457 to shoot. That is a tad larger than i like but .454 and .457 are standard Lee sizing dies. You could also polish out a .454 die until the get the right fit.

MMP Tan sabots are .456 with a true 40cal. So a Fury in .401 or .402 should also be in the ballpark for fit.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Thank you for the advice I understand for a lot of experience shooters there's ways around the bore dimensions my concern is for the novice shooter that doesn't know any better. I was able to get a 403 240 grain fury open tip in a light brown sabot to seat with enough tension that I would have felt safe hunting with it,, I will again reiterate this point though if you're an inexperienced muzzleloader you need to stay away from that rifle, and if you're the one making bullet bore decisions for CVA I'd be worried about my job

 

[Bowhunt-R]

I have a paramount that I’m ditching because of this exact issue. Going with a tc encore arrowhead build, and eventually an arrowhead Remington build.

 

[Mnt monkey]

One of the most accurate rifles I've had the last 10 years was the little 45-70 lightweight blued CVA ,, the rifle only weighed around 6 lb it was brutal to shoot but the barrel was absolutely phenomenal!! GM 120 mentioned it they make excellent 45-70 barrels I'm convinced bergara can make a good barrel when they want to, this was just a business philosophy decision made by them ,hope no inexperienced shooter gets hurt!!

 

[billyboy*]

THANK YOU for posting this. I will now recommend to friends to convert the .45/70 CVA Scout to a Smokeless Muzzleloader.

 

[03mossy]

I am glad you are putting this out there and your post was very professional and didn't make it personal. Hopefully, the higher-ups at CVA take notice of your points!

 

[Mnt monkey]

Thank you, I sure didn't mean to offend them or anyone else I think if you look at a lot of my past post on here I'm a CVA Acura fan, the whole topic is a little complex to me I think at the heart of it kind of what makes me sad is just to finally see 45 Cal fast twist rifles available for us to buy here especially a more economical gun and then it have all of these limitationss put on it.

 

[GM54-120]

Clearly its intentional or at the least, extremely poor quality control to have a bore that far out of spec. They have the tooling to do it correctly and a Scout even cost less than an Accura. Both have a Bergara barrel. The logical conclusion is they do it to sell Powerbelts or simply to prevent you from shooting other sabotless options.

Seriously, how hard would it be for them to fit a Scout barrel to an Optima and sell a bargain priced fast twist 45?....Not hard at all. They already have all the parts, tooling and CNC equipment. They even sell some lighter 45cal PBs that you would imagine would sell to people that want loads for kids. All this just seems like a no brainer to me. I would buy a Optima V2 45cal 1-20 in a blink for $350 if the bore was standard size.

 

[Ninering62]

I have a paramount that I’m ditching because of this exact issue. Going with a tc encore arrowhead build, and eventually an arrowhead Remington build.

I'm sorry that your Paramount is flawed like that. I have no complaints or problems with mine. For the tech used now in gun building, & what the consumer has to pay for these new muzzleloaders, there should not be any of these issues with their quality & performance. For any barrel maker nowadays to not make a concentric bore is just inexcusable. I've got the same - oversized bore on my Paramount & Accura V2 .45. BUt the barrels on both have no tight or loose stops in them. I've gotten .40 bullets to shoot very well out of the Accura, but not with the MMP sabots they came with ( neither bullet ) but after switching out the MMP's for HLBCR's I've had excellent results. I'm so glad I dont have one of these new CVA's & these barrels & general quality issues. Its sad to read these reviews, it's disappointing, to say the least.

 

[Mnt monkey]

You think I should use silicone or latex on this?

 

[Mnt monkey]

Just kidding,, I think that's just to give the action some air breathing, helps it cool off quicker

 

[WV Hunter]

Not sure if its intentional or not, but many companies have done that type of stuff in the past - working to steer clients to their products (ie: bullets). Agree with you, it definitely could be dangerous. Nice post, very good job. I doubt it gets any traction, but its worth a shot.

 

[GM54-120]

Its a button rifled barrel. To do that you have to make the buttons. I think worn buttons would create a tighter bore so its not wear related. Its clearly intentional they are doing something different with the 45cal barrels since Bergara came to be. I dont hear much about older Kodiaks and BPI Winchester 45s being so loose, uneven or choked. Both of those are nearly the same rifle that came out before the Bergara branding was a big deal.

Ive said for years the Bergara branded extra 5 step or whatever process is all hype if not air gauged when done. Im pretty sure GMB air gauges their barrels and that is part of the way you detect an uneven bore. Barrels that bad would be in the scrap pile.

 

[MrTom]

I dont hear much about older Kodiaks.....

My .45 Kodiak is tight from muzzle to the plug. With .40 XTPs, Barnes Expanders, and Deep Curls I need the blue crush rib sabot. Not a crush rib? Get a hammer. This is one reason I don't have it in the woods much. Very accurate, just tighter than tight. Bore is super clean and bright.

 

[One Inch Group]

The first time I loaded my CVA paramount 45 cal. I notice that the ELR powerbelt bullet was sticking to the brass end that CVA supplied with the rifle. Upon inspection, only the brass bullet, not the plastic piece. In other words the plastic piece stayed on top of the powder charge while the bullet disconnected. I also noticed the brass tip has a sharp edge that grasp the bullet. I dropped the bullet back down the bore and it fell all the way to the plastic piece. I then pointed the barrel towards the ground and low and behold the bullet fell out. Seems like that could be a dangerous situation while hunting with this rifle. If the bullet were to slide half way down the barrel the plastic piece could keep the BH 209 powder compressed enough to ignite. not good. I am surprised at how loose the ELR bullet fits the bore.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I've had bullet jags that were worn out before grab hold of a bullet too like that, but not that type of bullet,, I think CVA had some quality control issues with their bullets for a while from what I understood they got that straight, but I sure would keep an eye on that, and I do agree with your analysis it's if the bullets not tight with that plastic base you could have issues real quick. Have you called and asked them about the bullets? And if I were you I would polish the inside of my tip out and I might even take a couple more of those bullets just in my hands with some hand tools and see how easy it was to pull that back off or even if I could do it with my fingers just to kind of test things see if any of the other bullets seem to have that defect, you can improve the fit of the Jag on the bullet tip I think if you want to. Anyway be very careful make sure that that issue gets resolved. I would be curious what they said about the problem too if you ask them.