Open letter to CVA Paramount and MRX 1-22 twist rifles

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maybe just the .45 bergara muzzleloader barrel side ? it's been said a few times in this thread CVAs mrx/lrx in .50 are just fine . but aren't all the CVA muzzleloader barrels made by bergara ? but just the x series and up get the bergara label because of the extra passes ?
Oh no, my .50 LR-X has a .502 muzzle, then halfway expands down to .504. Very Inconsistent. OK if you shoot sabots or soft lead plated blue spaceships. But full bore conicals (my preferance) or home cast lead are pretty much out. BPI customer rep told me it's designed for modern bullets, (ie powerbelts) which I consider mediocre plated soft lead with a bunch of plastic. That powerbelt can comes off its post or doesn't seat on powder/pellets properly (happened to me), or imperfect plastic thickness. Modern bullets to me are full bore jacketed, or copper conicals, not encased in plastic. But yes, .50 X-rifles barrels have inconsistency issues...
 
what kind of groups are you getting at 100 yards AJMav ? and with what bullet/powder combo ?

we ordered the mrx a few hours ago with a set of the PRW2 medium rings . there's a %99 chance i'll only use sabots . midway shows a december 26th delivery , but stuff usually get here in 3-4 days and i already have a tracking number .
 
Oh no, my .50 LR-X has a .502 muzzle, then halfway expands down to .504. Very Inconsistent. OK if you shoot sabots or soft lead plated blue spaceships. But full bore conicals (my preferance) or home cast lead are pretty much out. BPI customer rep told me it's designed for modern bullets, (ie powerbelts) which I consider mediocre plated soft lead with a bunch of plastic. That powerbelt can comes off its post or doesn't seat on powder/pellets properly (happened to me), or imperfect plastic thickness. Modern bullets to me are full bore jacketed, or copper conicals, not encased in plastic. But yes, .50 X-rifles barrels have inconsistency issues...
Good to know that in the past a slight muzzle zone "choke" in rifle barrels was a finesse item, and even today custom barrel makers may lap a new barrel so as to leave a slight choke at the muzzle. And black powder cartridge barrels were by no means "standardized" in the later 1800s. Plus they sometimes had "progressive rifling" wherein the bore size and even the groove size might be steadily constricting from breech to muzzle, perhaps around .004 to .007" constriction for a .45 or .50 barrel. These barrels are made for softer grease-groove bullets up to 1:9 tin-to-lead hardness. Paper-patched bullets were usually pure lead.
Such constrictions may help seal muzzles, which aids accuracy just as a perfect crown does, but are of course problematic in a muzzleloader. Nonetheless, Pedersolil ML barrels have a thousandth or two of constriction -- or used to, as in my .45 Mortimer-Whitworth. Your bullet was thus a bit tight at the muzzle, then glided on down the barrel with very little ramrod pressure.
So if you can get your Powerbelt, saboted bullet or slug down the barrel, a slightly choked muzzle may well help you rather than hurt you.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa
 
Run the numbers in a calculator. You have to greatly increase velocity to make even a marginal change in rpm. Then you run into the limitations you might have with some projectiles. You can only push soft lead so fast before something has to give.
Good points. If I'm remembering my calcs correctly, a 30" barreled 1:18 twist long range .45 muzzleloader shooting a heavy LR bullet around 530-550 gr. wt. to 1000 yds. at 1200 fps (est. for 90 gr. Swiss 1.5 F BP) has a muzzle rps on the bullet of 2004.
By pumping up my MV to estimated 1350 fps by shooting 107 gr. of 1.5F Swiss and using same bullet in 30" 1:20.7 twist Pedersolil barrel (never chronographed it, but it worked -- round bullet holes to 1000 yds) I needed 1382 fps to theoretically equal the muzzle 2004 rps of the 1:18 twist barrel. So 1350 fps (est.) was enough and recoil was acceptable using shoulder pad.
And yes, I was using 1:20 alloy bullets, the hardest my friend could swage to size, over a good and slightly oversized card wad, or else pure lead but paper-patched bullets. Harder would have been better for the non-patched bare bullets to prevent bullet gas-cutting, resulting in leading, but nobody shooting long range ML seemed to get that point that you wisely note. They usually shot 1:30 or 1:50 very soft lead alloy.
Key was to use a gas-check of sorts -- either the PP on the bullet or else one or two .060 Walters Wads or a lubed felt wad plus thin card beneath the bullet. Old time powerful ML or cartridge loads used such wads.
Think we will agree that those using non-skirted or non-saboted bullets for today's powerful inlines would do well to always remember the wad issue to form a simple gas-check for the bullet being hit with heavy pressure at firing -- and all the moreso for pure lead bullets.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa
 
Sounds like bad steel, make and model?
Just my opinion from long study, but your "massive bulge" is how it looks inside due to light shadowing. If it is not bulged outside, or barely bulged, it is very unlikely to be a problem at moderate-powder-load ML pressures. That's because you have what is called a "pressure ring" in your barrel, and it was very likely caused by something like an overpowder wad or perhaps a powerbelt skirt rushing forward at firing and encountering a short-started tight bullet in the bore.
Using a slightly oversized overpowder wad, like a .465 Walters Wad in a .450 bore, you will likely shoot just fine despite the visible ring. To soothe your mind, carefully measure the barrel diameter in the zone of the ring with caliper or micrometer, then load properly and fire the rifle remotely using a cord (see back of Dixie Gunworks catalog, or online YouTube) a couple of times using an acceptable heavy load for your rifle. Measure carefully again. I much doubt you will see any barrel expansion at all.
I haven't the slightest doubt that thousands of ringed barrels of lesser strength than today's barrels were shot for years in the past with no one the wiser.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa
 
what kind of groups are you getting at 100 yards AJMav ? and with what bullet/powder combo ?

we ordered the mrx a few hours ago with a set of the PRW2 medium rings . there's a %99 chance i'll only use sabots . midway shows a december 26th delivery , but stuff usually get here in 3-4 days and i already have a tracking number .
Hey JeffB1961

I did a quick and dirty sight in this fall. I used the 270gr ELR Powerbelt, and 2 white hots. Right b4 muzzy season I switched it up to 3 white hots and was getting 1 1/4" 3 shot group at 100 yards.

Come spring I will be developing a load around 250 or 290 Barnes TEZ with Blackhorn 209. I have ordered 5 diff wads to swap in and out to wring out what I can. Picked up 2 8oz cans of Blackhorn 209, and am still looking for CCI 209M, Fed 209A primers. Gona start with 84 grains by weight and work my way down to find accuracy nodes.

I have soo many powders/pellets to play with come spring. I bought every powder, pellet, and bullet I could get my hands on, but still trying to get over my LR-X Inconsistent bore issue, the one thing that still irks me. 5 extra barrel polishing treatments from a fantastic barrel manufacturer, and I can't get a consistent bore. Bllsht
 
I would agree! Sorry to hear about your issues. I wish you luck...

I know any manufacturer will have some issues. I just can't understand the philosophy behind purposely building in a problem in so you can sell your proprietary bullets as the fix. Gotta be one of the worst ideas ever. And to make it worse, it's not like its on a super inexpensive rifle - the issues are mostly on their expensive line. 🤦‍♂️
 
If you think about it what is the most important element of an accurate Muzzleloader I don't care what kind of muzzle loader it is ,bolt action brake ,action side lock under hammer ,it doesn't matter bottom line it is a consistent bore. I've mentioned this before but I will again if he went to the F class shooters or the 100 200 300 yard benchrest crowd and presented them a rifle barrel with an uneven bore they wouldn't even bother shooting the gun they would laugh at you. If so many intelligence Shooters across the country have learned all kinds of tricks to make a muzzleloader bullet fit a Muzzleloader bore imagine what they could do with a consistent air gauged even constant bore. Maybe it's just me coming from a Centerfire background but I hope the muzzle loading community one day places a standard on bore dimensions, spending almost $1,000 on a rifle and having to become a expert in bullet sizing gymnastics is not right. All of the cool tricks to make a bullet fit are nice to know I just don't see many of us stating the reality that if we had a good bore to begin with we wouldn't have to learn and exercise all those tricks. Again I'm not talking about a bullet's need to swell I'm talking about a rifle bore designed to sell a rifle manufacturers bullets it didn't work out too well.
 
Hey JeffB1961

I did a quick and dirty sight in this fall. I used the 270gr ELR Powerbelt, and 2 white hots. Right b4 muzzy season I switched it up to 3 white hots and was getting 1 1/4" 3 shot group at 100 yards.

Come spring I will be developing a load around 250 or 290 Barnes TEZ with Blackhorn 209. I have ordered 5 diff wads to swap in and out to wring out what I can. Picked up 2 8oz cans of Blackhorn 209, and am still looking for CCI 209M, Fed 209A primers. Gona start with 84 grains by weight and work my way down to find accuracy nodes.

I have soo many powders/pellets to play with come spring. I bought every powder, pellet, and bullet I could get my hands on, but still trying to get over my LR-X Inconsistent bore issue, the one thing that still irks me. 5 extra barrel polishing treatments from a fantastic barrel manufacturer, and I can't get a consistent bore. Bllsht
Thanks
If mine is as accurate with xtp , tez and monoflexes as yours is with elr I'll be happy . Hopefully cva hasn't screwed up the 50s like their 45s to where thew only shoot decent with powerbelts .
 
If you think about it what is the most important element of an accurate Muzzleloader I don't care what kind of muzzle loader it is ,bolt action brake ,action side lock under hammer ,it doesn't matter bottom line it is a consistent bore. I've mentioned this before but I will again if he went to the F class shooters or the 100 200 300 yard benchrest crowd and presented them a rifle barrel with an uneven bore they wouldn't even bother shooting the gun they would laugh at you. If so many intelligence Shooters across the country have learned all kinds of tricks to make a muzzleloader bullet fit a Muzzleloader bore imagine what they could do with a consistent air gauged even constant bore. Maybe it's just me coming from a Centerfire background but I hope the muzzle loading community one day places a standard on bore dimensions, spending almost $1,000 on a rifle and having to become a expert in bullet sizing gymnastics is not right. All of the cool tricks to make a bullet fit are nice to know I just don't see many of us stating the reality that if we had a good bore to begin with we wouldn't have to learn and exercise all those tricks. Again I'm not talking about a bullet's need to swell I'm talking about a rifle bore designed to sell a rifle manufacturers bullets it didn't work out too well.
I hope so. Mine is exactly .450 from muzzle to breech, and I'll take an accuracy challenge :) ;)
 
What does the .50 MRX offer over and above the Optima? The MRX is more expensive, but I do not see anything the MRX offers that the Optima does not.
 
the cheek riser and adjustable trigger look useful .
i like the tool less takedown to clean it .
i think that it looks cleaner without the ramrod thimble .
and to my eye it's just a better looking gun .
could care less about the threaded barrel for a MB though .

everything isn't for everybody ....
 
Son of a ... i literally JUST got delivered a paramount 45 and this has me freaked out. Just took out of box on Christmas Eve and placed in safe with tags still on it...

SOooo, where do I go from here?
Assume I need to check the barrel. I have limited equipment as I am a "bow" guy not a gun guy.. 😂. But I have my share.

First order may be to clean and then try to put one of their bullets down and "feel" for variation and go from there?

If wonky i will be ordering from Bob at Parker Productions?
 

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