Open letter to CVA Paramount and MRX 1-22 twist rifles

[Decay]

No, CVA but a new barrel on it.

 

[Pathfinder60]

IndifferUOTE="Mnt monkey, post: 360887, member: 22127"]
I love their 1 and 28 twist 50 cal nothing but praise and success with it I just do not understand why these decisions were made it really just centers around bore dimensions and selling bullets and not having the vision to look forward and see the potential dangers involved
[/QUOTE]
Indifference...and professional pride.
Oh...and arrogance."I don't make mistakes because I'm so damned smart"...says yet another business executive.

 

[45-70]

sad part is people keep buying them

 

[Mnt monkey]

I wish sometimes we had something similar to Saami spec,, a set of determining measurements that just applied to muzzleloader rifle and pistol bores, I wish sometimes all muzzleloader barrels were air gauge and they're exact dimensions posted for the buyer to read, if they met established bore dimensions correctly they would get the approval if not then they would not get the stamp. I read the post of someone a couple of days ago talking about how almost all muzzleloader shooters have to deal with these issues and that is with any rifle no matter how expensive or cheap it is, it just shouldn't be that way, has part of the appeal of muzzleloader shooting just become how to figure out how to make a bullet ride down an uneven bore? It should not be that way, and I'm surprised more of us don't see that. If there was a muzzleloader builder in America to guaranteed the dimensions of his bore and gave a stamp of approval that they had been air gauged and checked accurately wouldn't you rather have a rifle like that and just buy one and Hope because it seems like there's just a lot of rolling the dice and hoping or figuring out all the trick new ways to make the bore shoot anyway. Talk to someone from the bench rest world or the long distance tactical shooting ask him what he would do with bores like we're talking about they would laugh at you and ask you what you're even doing shooting them in the first place.

 

[Mnt monkey]

If Knight ,Arrowhead, hankins ,Patriot ,Fisk any of the other prominent builders , rice barrels, all the traditional barrel makers, and the traditional rifle builders got together and formed established bore dimensions maybe that institute and that stamp of approval would put pressure on a lot of those producing out of spec barrels.

 

[Mnt monkey]

If you were spending $800 to $1,500 on a muzzleloader wouldn't you rather know that you're bore had passed some type of spec and not just roll the dice

 

[ENCORE50A]

If Knight ,Arrowhead, hankins ,Patriot ,Fisk any of the other prominent builders , rice barrels, all the traditional barrel makers, and the traditional rifle builders got together and formed established bore dimensions maybe that institute and that stamp of approval would put pressure on a lot of those producing out of spec barrels.

Unfortunately it wouldn't matter. Its so obvious that for "some" its all about money. As 45-70 mentioned above, they'll just keep buying them.
Most of those owners are hunters and not shooters. Difference IMO is that if they can hit a pie plate they're good. Brand loyalists and nothing this side of the "deep pit" will ever change their minds.

"Those manufacturers", believe me, have people monitoring the different web sites and certainly here. There's been enough GREAT information shared on this site that they should have all known better.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I agree with you however if the established standards were created it would put a lot of pressure on those foreign rifle builders.

 

[toytruck]

All this should bring to light the worth and value of a White rifle. The Wilson and Criterion barrels are precise and very accurate. Shame they are not made any longer!
If you own one or more you know what I'm saying...

 

[Mnt monkey]

The most forgiving muzzleloader barrel I've ever shot is a 450-457 Wilson barrel it was supposed to be a 45-70 barrel! I believe if the standards were established it would benefit American rifle builders and I believe that the standards were established it would benefit American muzzleloader buyers,, or we can just keep learning new tricks to make poor barrel shoot

 

[GM54-120]

Old Knight Master Hunters were hand selected barrels. They had to pass a stricter inspection. Green Mountain barrels are air gauged although im not sure if that includes the ML barrels they make for Knight. Maybe im just lucky but i never got a GMB/Knight barrel that was choked or real far out of spec. Worst i had was a 50 Extreme with almost .502 lands. Both my 45s are tight as in under .451 tight and the old DISC is around .450 tight on the lands. My Pacnor Super Match grade is smoother but as far as i can tell its not any more even. My Douglas Prem XX is butter smooth too and lands are really close to .500........REALLY love that Douglas Prem XX barrel too.

None of these are high end cut rifled. Its not that hard to do it much better than CVA has been doing. Ive said for years the "Bergara extra 5 step honing" line is all a bunch of talk. Smooth dont meen squat when the bore too loose or uneven. Thats critical for 45cal with the lack of sabot choices. Plus bullets are either .451-.452 or .458. You got no middle ground to work with in sabotless. 50cal on the other hand has a huge sabot selection and sabotless is far less popular.

 

[ourway77]

I own an MRL 45 & MRX 50 calibers both unfired I got some 40 caliber bullet .405 and with a harvester blue sabot from Fury they fit the 45 very good they will not move off the powder But I have muzzleloader hunted ever since Maryland started a season 40 years more or less I always check my load when I get out of my car and before I get into mby stand I would have never known had it not been for this sight about the bores after I bought then Now I went and bought a Paramount DA

 

[d.winsor]

If they are having these kinds of problems with the .45 Paramont are they having the same issues with the .50 Cal Accura LR-X 1 in 28 twist I am thinking about buying one but an now unsure.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I think you would be well served with the 50 cal it's just the 45s that have this issue I highly recommend their 28 twist 50

 

[Pathfinder60]

If they are having these kinds of problems with the .45 Paramont are they having the same issues with the .50 Cal Accura LR-X 1 in 28 twist I am thinking about buying one but an now unsure.

I can't speak to this specific model of CVA rifle but I have not heard any complaints anywhere of the 1 in 28" twist 50 cal guns. I personally own a CVA Accura V2 Plains Rifle and I've found it to be excellent.

 

[Mango1]

I completely agree with Mnt monkey and all the others that purchased what we believed was a high quality CVA product only to find out the rifle had lots of negative issues. I have 2 Paramount rifles. One of the original 2019 .45 and a new .40 HTR. Unfortunately, the ELR Powerbelt / CVA bullets are a very poor fit in most Paramount barrels. The .40 ELR bullets fall down the barrel in my rifle and will move up the barrel if the rifle is inverted and shaken. That is a serious safety issue. The .45 ELR bullets in my Paramount fit looser than I would prefer but they do stay seated. My .45 Paramount shoots reliable 1.00"-1.25" at 100 yards with 100gr weighed BH209, 2290fps, SD 18, and I never have any fliers. My .40 HTR never did shoot the ELR bullets reliably. About every 8th shot was a keyhole / sideways tear at 100yds with 3" groups. I have since thrown all my .40 ELR bullets away, but I did keep the handy plastic cases for the properly sized Fury bullets. Parker Production will have .40 bullets for the Paramount's in the near future.
Both rifles now shoot Parker Productions & Fury Bullets properly sized to fit the respective barrels snugly when clean, somewhat tighter when fouled. Accuracy and safety are no longer a question. I do really like the solid Paramount design and now the true performance potential of both my rifles really shines. I considered selling both rifles and starting over but the $$$ loss would have been greater than the cost of a couple bullet sizers I was going to need anyway if I went to a custom build. I do love the Paramount adjustable stocks with the aluminum chassis & solid feel. The muzzle brakes work extremely well and reduce the recoil by what feels like 50%. CVA made a huge mistake expecting customers to only shoot the ELR bullets that do not even fit the bores properly or safely in my opinion. Thanks to several other member posts I fixed my Paramount problems.
Both my rifles are now very reliable and accurate. Here is what I did. If you have a .45 Paramount call Bob at Parker Productions and he will fix your bullet problems. My .45 Paramount never leaks out of the vari-flame breech plug so I continue to use that system. If you have a .40 Paramount call Arrowhead Muzzleloaders and purchase their module conversion kit. It will never leak again. Fury Bullets also available from Arrowhead Muzzleloaders will cure your bullet issues.
I would like to thank all the highly experienced muzzleloader shooters out there that helped straighten me out. I started in muzzleloading a few years ago and like centerfire rifles there are bumps in the road until you gain enough experience to solve your own problems. Only accurate rifles are fun!!!!

I have a Paramount Hunter and bought the new Parker 40's and they shot sub MOA (85 gr weight 209) and they are bullet to bore no sabot or belt. You do need to buy a sizer for the bullets and can adjust the tightness in the barrel. Call Bob Parker and he will give you all the tips for doing this. The BPI/CVA ELR's are not worth messing with and I had the same issues and results as Mountainhunter3006.

 

[Underclocked]

I've checked the bore on exactly one .45 caliber MR-X and I found it to be terrible. A .457 conical started easily and barely engraved the rifling as I pushed to the breech. Its engagement was sporadic as part of travel was a free fall. The rifle was sent back, a huge disappointment!!

 

[Underclocked]

Are the CVA rifle barrels still produced at the Bergara factory?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Are the CVA rifle barrels still produced at the Bergara factory?

Supposedly, and have been for a long time. Even before Bergara was a respected maker. The Electras had Bergara stamped on them, and the Kodiaks are from the same era and supposed to have the same barrels just without the Bergara stamp. Both were/are great shooting guns Not many better guns than the Kodiak .45, which is a ‘kind of’ clone of the Omegas. Now that ive got another 45 Kodiak i may be able to let go of my 45 Accura LR.

 

[brownisdown]

I have a cva kodiak 45 magnum for over 2 years,but have never shot it.Cva sent me an email to send it back in because they were going to destroy it because they are not going to make them any more.I sent it back and got a bran d new cva Wolf in return.Never fired and still in box.3 weeks later I got the kodiak back and a letter said they had rebuilt it and at no charge to me.Both might be going up for sale once I make up my mind.